The Universe According to ASLAN's ATT

Have been asked to summarize my constructions on reality vis a vis UFO's and Christianity.

Have been stripped of virtually everything in my life more than a time or 2. That has included about all I thought about reality, including Christianity.

Was reared with an early Pentecostal Christian world view.

Was also reared by a fierce mother who thought she was 100% right about everything but who, bless her heart, her unique cogitations and her own mangled childhood--tended to be wrong more than a little bit. She was also an artist at destructive double-binds--damned if you did's and damned if you didn't's.

Was an only child until mother and step-dad adopted a baby girl at my age of 10. Mother and Blood dad divorced at my age of 2. Good thing. My Blood Dad was the sort of person who'd hired folks for his business and then expect them to guess what he wanted; guess precisely how he wanted it and precisely when he wanted it done. If they were slightly off in any of that guessing, there was verbal hell to pay. I could not have handled a dad like that at close range, at all.

Step-dad was a decent fellow. Still is at more than 81 years. But I learned only a decade or two ago that the times when he was so angry and putting whelts on my legs to display in Jr High gym class, he was angry at my mother for forcing him to do it. I think the worst time was when I'd somehow managed to ignore the 2nd command to cut my toast before taking a bite. Most meals were traumatic experiences for me as I ended up getting harshly scolded and disciplined for one reason or another.

Anyway--In the above context, God was about my only companion and dialogue from early on. I had a collie dog that my mother's mother bragged she only needed to see the tail of to know I was OK. Mother worked nights at the phone company and Grandmother ironed during the day to eek out a living.

During my growing up, I observed some interesting things. My Step-dad became a Christian after the following event. During a particularly desperate period on the old home place--where my parents have lived for 52 years on some part of the original property--we originally moved into an old adobe mud hut. Anyway--during a very trying time economically, we somehow ended up with 10 cows and mother got Dad to agree to pray before going into a dairy business.

So, I think it was a Saturday evening, they prayed that if God wanted them to go into a dairy business as a good thing--well and good--no buyers would come for the cows. If it was not a good thing--then that there would be a buyer for the cows before Monday morning was past--before Noon Monday. By Sunday morning before church, a buyer was there who would have taken even our personal family cow.

Within a month or two, the price of milk went down and the price of hay went up. We'd have lost our farm.

Another time, there was a small twister that took all the corrugated tin roofing sheets off our hay barns and chicken coops and was carrying them toward our hut. Mother prayed something like "Oh, Jesus, help us." on two sides of the hut, there was a sea of tin. Interestingly, near the hut, one could have drawn virtually a straight line about 1.5" from the house. Not a piece of tin touched the house.

Another time, again during desperate economic straits, we had our hay cut and drying in the field--very needed for the cows. A rain storm was coming up the San Juan river. It's path always meant our property would get a good soaking. Again, Mother saw it coming and prayed. I checked later. It had rained on 4 sides of the cut hay but not on the hay field. Good thing. We might have lost the farm because of the ruined hay.

I also sometimes saw evidently authentic healings in church. And, one time, well before it was common, there was a somewhat elderly lady in the prayer line who was prayed for. She suddenly fell flat on her back and her upper torso BOUNCED a couple inches off the hardwood floor. All with no seeming awareness of her head hitting the floor so hard and no ill effects.

Another time I was in Jr High or High School and was feeling extremely alone and isolated. Might have even been suicidal. And I'd prayed for God to touch me and meet me in the altar during the after sermon prayer time and hadn't felt much or heard much. And I was in the middle of the auditorium walking toward the front. I was silently whining to God about why hadn't He touched me. Suddenly, I felt a huge strong man's hand grip my shoulder firmly. I turned quickly around thinking it was Bart--a 6'6" stalwart in the church. But there was no one around me for 35' in any direction. I felt a zap go down my spine. And, I felt comforted.

There were times of extreme emotional pain during Jr High/High school and one of those times I decided I'd had enough of God and Christianity. I'd become an atheist. It didn't last more than a few months. Scriptures well emblazoned in my memory kept coming true regardless of what I did or didn't do; thought or didn't think. This happened again in college. I finally decided very firmly and emphatically that there was plenty of evidence for God and I'd best do my best to follow Him the rest of my life.

My Christianity is very orthodox. I believe in the standard doctrines of the faith. Certainly the Pentecostal/Charismatic section of Christianity believes in modern day miracles etc. just as recorded in Acts 2 and I Corinthians 12-14.

I don't believe God likes formulas--even most of the formulas in Scripture. He's not a vending machine and won't be our butler, maid, gopher or any such. He's not per se our servant at our beck and call.

But He does delight to give good things to His children. He requires that WE EARNESTLY SEEK HIM FIRST AND FOREMOST AND HIS PRIORITIES/KINGDOM--THEN He WILL add all the other beneficial things to us as persons and to our lives and families.

I consider that this is for our own good and insurance. He must have a tried, tested people who have learned to Love Him first and foremost. He will not have and Heaven doesn't need fickle folks who would be at risk of rebelling as 1/3 of the angels did at one time.

I believe that we are in the Biblcal End times because Israel became a nation again IN A DAY precisely as predicted in Scripture in 1948 after nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. I believe that Scripture indicates that at least someone of the cohort alive when Israel became a nation again in a day in 1948--at least someone alive then will be alive to see the rest of the end time Prophecies fulfilled.

That will include the completion and installation of the world government to be headed by the satanic AntiChrist; a host of natural disasters and plagues; ending in Armageddon won by Christ and His saints and followed by at least 1,000 years of perfect peace.

I believe there will be a CATCHING AWAY of believers in the air as Scripture describes. I don't know any longer for certain whether that will be before the 7 years of Great Tribulation or during the middle of it. I'm still inclined to believe before.

There may be more than one 'Rapture.' It may be that certain individuals will be given a choice of catching the next elevator UP! or staying here as some sort of special commando to do the enemy camp harm.

I do not believe that the bulk of believers are appointed to go through the last 3.5 years of the Great Tribulation--God's Wrath on evil and evil doers and a sin polluted planet. Biblical precedent is against that happening and some specific Scriptures seem to speak against that happening.

There will evidently be mortals live through the 7 years of Great Tribulation and end up having children during the 1,000 years of peace. Some believe they will miraculously become believers during all the pain and suffering. I don't know. Scriptures not very clear on that score.

I do not believe prophecies about all the above are given in Scripture nor through modern valid prophets (of which there seem to be relatively few compared to those who think they are)--I do not believe prophecies about such are given to generate fear. Rather we are told to prepare but repeatedly Scripture says to FEAR NOT. We are only to have reverential awed fear of God ONLY who can extinguish our essence totally vs satan and others who can only kill our bodies.

I believe God is serious about training individuals to rule and reign with Christ over endless worlds and endless ages.

I believe it is crucial to His plan that we be refined to rule out of Love and Humility. That's essentially what this boot camp with free will and suffering is all about.

My hunch is that the 70 or so reported races of ET's observing and dinking around with this boot camp are keenly interested in the rearing and training of their future rulers.

Scripture says that ALL CREATION GROANS, WAITING EAGERLY, EXPECTANTLY, LONGINGLY FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD--whatever that means. But I believe it means that ALL CREATION has somehow been polluted by satan's rebellion and is eager to be delivered of that and the resulting suffering.

I suspect that the ET's which we all hear about--I'm convinced that the bulk of them at least are in cahoots with satan and the globalists eager to set up the world government. They just don't act and sound like Godly critters.

I believe that satan and ET's have been in cahoots for 100's and probably thousands of years to perpetuate what the Bible describes as the GREAT DECEPTION of the end times--so great that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE [which evidently Holy Spirit will render not possible for believers] even the best believers would be deceived. That's a pretty great deception. I think we need to practice walking with God and hearing and obeying His voice now so that we won't be deceived.

I believe that the USA must be brought low--we have foresaken our Biblical heritage; engaged in ruthless infanticide and other hideousness and generally at least 30+% of our citizens have ran the opposite direction from God setting themselves up as their own god. As Billy Graham said, if God doesn't punish America, He'll have to apologize to Soddom and Gomorrah.

I believe one of the reasons for so many of our blessings has been our Christian faith as well as our missionary efforts and good that we've extended around the world.

But that's not the whole story. The ruling elite have also devastated innocents around the world and in our own country in the name of power mongering, greed etc.

I also believe that another reason the USA has to decrease is so that GOD ALONE will end up being ISRAEL'S ONLY PROTECTOR.

I don't know the timeline on the remainder of end time stuff. I think that one person remaining alive who was alive in 1948 would be sufficient to fulfill that prophecy about THAT GENERATION/COHORT.

So, what--125 years from 1948 would be 2,073 as an outside date?

But the trend lines on a list of things--INCLUDING DISCLOSURE OF UFO STUFF--will peak well before that. The trend line on the revealing and overt establishment of the world government will be well before then.

I think a couple of benchmarks, mile posts will be the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. That has to be rebuilt so that the Anti-Christ can set up his image in the Holy of Holies in it as the Abomination which makes Desolate. Then the real wrath of God will begin.

Also, the AntiChrist has to overtly become known over the whole world as the world ruler.

At that point, I think we'd have 'only' 7 years before Christ's return. I don't think it's that long until one or both above mile posts occurs. I'd guesstimate much less than 25 years. Some think 1-7 years.

The Bible speaks of up to near 2/3 of the world's population being killed along with a third of the trees, grass and life in the sea.

One hears a lot of ads to buy gold. Perhaps it would be wise for a time. But The Bible speaks of a bag of gold going for a loaf of bread.

I think it's the wine and the oil that are not to be touched by destruction.

I believe a lot of believers will be fed by manna from Heaven; quail from God; loaves and fishes and food in crock pots multiplied etc.

I believe many believers will be let out of imprisonment miraculously.

I believe that the SLAG is the Mark of the Beast [SLAve taG] computer chip implant.

I believe many believers, myself included, will be traveling as Philip in the NT--via Holy Spirit's instant transport. See Pastor Yuan's HEAVENLY MAN for an example of his already experiencing that. I've also known of believers who suddenly at a high rate of speed who've come upon a crashed semi trailer rig in a deep cut in the terrain kind of roadway where there was ABSOLUTELY NO escape. And one moment they are heading at a high speed toward crashing into the wrecked semi--and the next moment they are on the other side of the semi going on down the road as though nothing happened.

I believe that young children are going to do great miraculous exploits for Jesus both offensively against satanic and NWO forces and in healings etc.

This is a fair summary. I'll stop here.

Please feel free to respond and ask questions. I plan also to put comments to other threads which would likely include elements of this Christian perspective here in this thread.

Blessings to all who seek Truth and God.

I don't know how to ping Dingo Brains and RWTAKEN.

You did ping me, at your service ASLANs. I'm taking off on my broomstick for a while, but I will come back tomorrow and read your post. Looks like an interesting read. I also have half a reply written out to you for that other thread, but alas, time seems to elude me and many things yet to be completed. Some of us are a bit slower than others and these days, I number amongst the slow. Have not foresaken or forgotten you.

Dingo
.

THANKS TONS AND TONS. Don't feel forgotten. Take your time. I'm awash in high priority administrivia and other chores as well.

May your tasks be fruitful in the best ways you need such.

Cheers.

That was a moving and very heartwarning read ASLANs - thank you

I better understand your perspective now. Can I just say that whilst I do not subscribe to much of your 'perspective' I have complete and total respect for you and the beliefs you hold. I won't be trying to 'convert' you lol and whilst you may indeed feel obliged to convert others (I'm not sure if your beliefs are of an evangelical and conversionary nature) I will always listen and respond with the utmost respect. You may wonder why I even feel obliged to say this to you? Well two reasons mostly - 1) I'm normally the one on the forum with the shortest temper, the longest teeth and I don't suffer fools gladly - you're obviously no fool - whilst your beliefs are a million miles from mine they are well thought out and grounded firmly in your life experience and faith...this is refreshing as so many people in my experience cling to beliefs for which they have no foundation. 2) You seem like a very pleasant person to know and that is actually (to me) a far more important attribute than any view of 'reality' or beliefs that a person might hold. It is always nice to meet pleasant people.

If I can take you back to your earlier years - you say you have several times been stripped of all that you were or believed....so complex is the modern world that I find this happens to people more and more with every day that passes....indeed I myself fall victim to a shifting set of beliefs more or less every second Tuesday lol. This fortnight I believe, the next I don't. I don't see it so much as a 'jungle' out there but I see it as a cacophony of competing ideas, a deafening, roaring never ending crescendo of people, things and places all trying to catch your attention and making you 'believe' in them or at the very least capture your attention long enough to take you away from the 'real' issues.

I'm a thinker ASLANs and to let you better understand me I would say this - the fact that I'm a thinker makes me no more important or 'loftier' than anyone else, there are areas of expertise however where I do claim a little more knowledge than most - Social behaviour for example (I am a fully qualified Sociologist although I work full time as a professional musician). Like you - my formative years were powerful indeed and left impressions upon me that will never wane. Poverty and despair were never far from the door and those two conspire to force any child to ask questions of God. In adult life I have had more than my fair share of injustice served upon me and it is this which finally led to my argument and dispute with God which led to me stomping out of his sight and asking for a divorce.....Metaphorically speaking I served him with the divorce papers but to be honest I don't think he's signed them yet....there's something lurking in the back of my mind that says 'He's still out there.....waiting.....hoping for a re-conciliation'

Anyways - I'm waffling. Thanks for outlining those beliefs and thought as well as your experiences....you see I firmly believe that try as hard as we may we cannot seperate our beliefs from our experiences....it has been interesting to read what shaped many of your beliefs......thanks again.

Ben

Well Aslans yours is an interesting life. For me Satan isn't a creature but a symbol of the evil potential in all humans. God to me is not a single creature or entity (although it may well be), but an approximation of an abstract concept humans can not express in language and at best can be said to be that which everything originated from.

Christianity to me is but one of a plethora of stories humans have passed on expressing subjective opinions as to how the abstract concept many call God would express itself. To me, I would say its plausible we all orginated from the same entity which would make us all children of God if we are to use those terms or what I would prefer to say - fellow particles in a huge sea of quadra billions of particles or vessels of light or energy that broke off from this original entity so that it could experience itself by dividing and creating cycles of seperation and attachement.

In this manner, the vessels of energy or particles that break off are given or inherently possess free will to explore and experience - and this free floating (action, anti-action, thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis, etc.) or the essence said to be in things is this ability to experience and to do that there must be free floating or voyaging or experiencing, chaos, confusion, absurdity, imperfection, distortion, etc. without extra-ordinary or artificial interference otherwise the lessons from the experiences would be circumvented or preempted and this in turn would cause a cosmic void or lack or loss of awareness causing imbalances or gaps in experience that would need to be revisited and resolved to allow other experiences to then evolve as well.

So I see the concept of aliens, or humans, or all life forms as little cubes or particles of energy which on their own have one meaning and then when inter-acting with other particles have other meaning. I would say each particle is like a tiny cube that makes up sand. That sand in turn when inter-contected makes a tiny handful of sand which when inter-connected to millions of other hand-fills makes up a tiny beach or corner of a desert that covers an entire planet and then this planet is but a grain of sand in another handful of sand that eventually inter-connects to construct another planet on another level and so on.

I see the exercise of experiencing through detaching from the origination as the essence of creation and a continuous cycle and I think it is possible that there could be an entity or entitie of higher development then humans that appear to be a God or Gods to humans and could have created our universe as a manifestation of learning and experiencing, and could in turn be one of many Gods of specks of particles on another level that the originator of everything created.

No telling how complex and how many layers there are of demension.

So I tend to see the human body as a physical manifestation that houses this particle of light or energy or soul or spirit and that when this light particle sheds the physical body at death it merely takes on a different form and may very well choose to keep reincarnating in human or other forms until the experiences it is destined to learn are
completed.

Whether I am truly an individual vessel of experience or an illusion really doesn't need to be defined and besides what ever I would define it as is just my opinion and attempt at conceptualizing like all of the above. Its just my opinion and since I am a human I am by definition imperfect and therefore absurd.

To me the concept of there being a God that sends a human to save other humans is quaint. Many religions have hero like figures, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, etc. and I know to many people this symbolic meaning is the path of their lives and existences.

There are days when I am tempted to make t-shirts and my own religion and post universal thoughts and maybe grow a beard and wear sandals all the time but then I look in the mirror and go, nah....there's enough middle men doing that already and where I live I would need to wear socks and socks and sandals are not cool.

Besides its so much more fun marvelling at the miracles of nature when one does not have to attach negatives or preconditions or a guy with a beard or a vision of a virgin to it. To just accept it for what it is and not have to define it for me is the fun.

I see a tree or a flower and I know its intricate design is an indication of something behind the immediate thing we see and call a plant or vegetation. That is good enough for me. Anything more complex and I know I am just getting into the world of human
constructs or as the Buddists would say distraction from meaningful contemplation.

So I am the kind of person who is attracted to simplicity in thought as to me the simpler things are the more profound they are.

I worry some days I write too forcefully and sound like a self-righteous ass but do not mean to and simply want to be another human sharing ideas but I would say when it comes right down to God or anything else, I just have an opinion - nothing else.

To me I would feel I have become mentally unhealthy the moment I start believing that what I think is in fact absolutely true. Being able to accept everything as inexact and an approximation or absurdity...being able to cope with being stupid....and not really knowing and constantly feeling stupid and needing to learn from people - that to me
means I am healthy because it fuels my free will an desire to float and experience as opposed to getting entrenched or bogged down in but one thing and losing the flexability to experience as many things as possible.

So there you have it. To me someone who tells me they know God is either psychotic or a joker. To me someone who tries to convert me is a socio-path. To me a wise person is someone who takes pleasure in simple things, and when they share things they do it with humility and care and not as a conqueror or authoritarian and certainly with no ultimatums and conditions attached.

When I hear humans say things like, "God says this, God says that, the scriptures say this...the scriptures say that..." I think, what makes them think they speak for God or
the original writers of the things they have read? Who appointed them? Who gave them the knowledge we unwashed heathen do not have? And I then answer it thusly;
No one. They are self-fullfing prophets.

I also honestly believe if Jesus was alive today he would be very humble, claim to be a child of God not THE child of God and would never try impose his opinions on anyone.

I think the version of Jesus as an imposer of thought and as a person who claimed to divine was created by humans. I think his true story was lot more gentle then we think it was and over the years it has taken on new meaning each time someone translates it and injects their subjective opinions into it.

MUCH honored by your reply. Thanks tons.

I merely feel compelled within to share what I've learned with those interested and potentially interested.

I can't convert anyone and am not really interested unless Holy Spirit is wooing someone and they let me know. But I am keen to provide answers and thought provoking inputs which God may or may not use in jarring people out of dead ruts. I think passivity and complacency CAN be amongst some of the most insideously deadly ills of human critters.

I have no doubt that God is holding out for a reconciliation. We shall see what that might look like if and when.

I certainly enjoy a variety of dialogues with a variety of individuals. I have increasingly given up on and foresaken the more disagreeable sorts. I still have some compassion and empathy for them. On the other hand, if they are only interested in poking me in the eyes and heart--then rain on them. They can stew in their own juice.

I certainly have a core of beliefs that only deepen. But there are a lot of peripheral issues that ebb and flow and are adjusted or not depending on a wide variety of inputs.

I'm pretty narrow and conservative on the basic doctrines of The Faith which Christ articulated plenty clearly. I certainly accept His statement that no man reaches the Father but through Christ. That seems to be the stickler for so many.

Humans just have this bent--especially Americans and Westerners--that they should be able to construct God in their image according to their preferences. LOL.

Thankfully, God is infinitely too BIG for such silly games. He has some definite priorities and criteria for significant prolonged dialogue and RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. And, He's much better at waiting us out a trillion times over than we could ever be at waiting Him out.

PERFECTION has no need to be accommodating at all to rebellion, destruction, destructiveness and the like. In fact, PERFECTION wouldn't last long if it did try such Marxist games accepting rebellion's strategy of CONQUEST BY COMPROMISE in increments. LOL.

Anyway--I should take a nap.

I have a few comments on your kind and thoughtful reply.

However, a nap is calling me much more strongly at the moment. Perhaps in the next 72 hours sometime. A busy weekend and week ahead.

Okay, I'm gonna chime in here too.

First of all, Aslans, I admire your passion and thoroughness at setting out your life and beliefs. A lot of people are barely capable of taking as much of a look at things as you are. I salute your intelligence, guts and humanity. You're pretty cool, guy, as we say here in California.

I was raised, baptised and Sunday schooled in a very liberal Presbyterian church in Ventura County, California. We were taught that Biblical lore may well often be symbolic and archetypically mythic, designed as moral education rather than exact history. That's heresy, right there, to most mainline American Christianity, both in my kidhood and now.

As a result of my upbringing and my "religious" choices in life, I do not think that God is omnipotent. God cannot be, or bad things would not happen, especially to good people.

God can't control all of what happens. I think he can reach out, give mental pushes to people or capitalize on scenarios that take place in our world to try and guide people to do the right thing, like be helpful or not give up on something. Once in a while, I think God can "make" something happen, but only if someone or some group's love of life and humanity paves the way. So, no good we do is in vain, ever.

God is, like, cheering us on. When bad things happen, he grieves with ultimate compassion and understanding for us and will do what God can to make a way for us. There's no "right" way, but if we pick a way and work on it "right", God is doing what he can to help us on that path.

Horrible things happen, because of this world's people, some of them, making selfish ("sinful") choices. We countermand that "energy" (for lack of a better word) by doing all we can to keep "walking in the light" (corny, but short and descriptive). In the midst of hideousness, there are lucky breaks and things that could have been worse. I think that's us, helped by God, working through us.

And then some times, things go so very, very right. I'm talking to all of you folks here. I see it and I believe it.

Good Tidings and my utmost, heartfelt happiness to all of you who've been thinking, writing and posting about this stuff. Believe me, I feel on a very deep level of "knowing" that God is in there, pitching for us. Omnipotent God, no. Fairly powerful God, Lover and understander beyond all comprehension, Big Yes.

I think Alan Watts nailed it--one mind among us all, and it's the mind of God. We are all masks and pieces of him, mysteriously part of the human jigsaw that comprises the existance of God, yet mysteriously complete each in ourselves, as God is. And there is a great "taboo" against believing that, because it is more conveinant for controlling nations to have the people believe in the will and preferences of an all-powerful god.

When we "die" and get to be close to the source, everything we have done and ben in our lives will be unbelieveably and completely understood by the ultimate in love and understanding (this beautiful opinion is from from Fr. J Fursted, a pastor in LydaRose's church).

Like an abductee who has no scientific proof of his experience, I'll just say, I've had moments in the last few years of my life where the love, limitations and ways of the non-omnipotent God are apparent and vibratingly real to me. I 'll say that I guarantee it, my friends, as an experiencer.

Oh, and to stay on topic, UFOs are here and coming from inside or outside the solar system, or from another dimension or time, I dunno, but I don't see them as really religious in nature.

Well ASLANs I must admit, you certainly thought this whole thing through! Not that I agree with your conclusions, but at least you've taken the time to evaluate your own system logically. You've been on both sides of the coin so to speak, and now I think I understand how evangelicals are different from other forms of protestantism. For that knowledge I thank you, but now having that knowledge, your perspective seems even more frightening to me.

Now let me get this straight. At your very core belief, you think that having a life changing revelation about God makes all the difference. And helping others to have these life changing revelations is part of your duties as one of the 'reborn'. To me, this is exclusitory; to say that only the 'reborn' or 'born-again' truly understand the relationship between god and man is just asinine. I believe there are many people on this planet that have developed their own personal relationship with God, sans 'revelations' and organized doctrine. I also believe that these people are by nature closer to god than any pastor, rabbi, priest, ayotola, whatever. What makes them closer to God is their complete understanding that the words and parables preached to humanity by bible thumping preachers are valuable only in the sense that they help people open up heir own personal dialogue on the subject of religion.

I've said it here before and I will say it again:

It is not important HOW you get to God, its only important that you GET to God. All religions are valid, all spirituality - a road to understanding. Choose you method of transport, they all lead to the same place.

Many a layperson and religious worker have expressed this.

Personally I'm converting to Zoroastrianism... prepare for the blood lettings!

I'm cool with that RW, as long as your "Zoroastrian" name isn't "Rick James" .

I would also like to express my admiration for all who have taken part in this conversation and others in this section of the Forum recently. You are all a credit to the community, whatever your positions here are.

Thanks for keeping it sweet....

~Cowbell

How very sweet CC! And may I say, quite neutral. Do I have to hold up the red cape, or you gonna charge when your damn well ready? lol

:blush2: .....Seriously, it's been a rough few weeks on the Forum for some of us and it's very refreshing to see difficult topics discussed by the membership with intelligence, respect and goodwill.

As for me, I fear I might be one of those who ASLANs has described above.

"I have increasingly given up on and foresaken the more disagreeable sorts. I still have some compassion and empathy for them. On the other hand, if they are only interested in poking me in the eyes and heart--then rain on them. They can stew in their own juice.

In my experience, things that stew in their own juice usually get tastier. I think I will take ASLANs advice for now. Go figure....now, back to the topic at hand.

Please continue.

~Cowbell

Thanks much for the time, bother and thoughtfulness of your reply. Am afraid I'm tired, just home from church group and weary from lots of chores with too many yet undone. Will still try and give your thoughts a fair but brief shot.

Well Aslans yours is an interesting life.

As I noted to my wife on the trip to Israel we met on . . . life with me would not be dull--might be a lot of things but not dull. After 9 years, she decided she needed some dull. So she married a co-worker who carried a bear head around for months in the back of his pickup looking for an ant hill to eat the gunk out. 9 years later, she traded him in. LOL.

For me Satan isn't a creature but a symbol of the evil potential in all humans.

Having had an OOB trip to hell, it's very easy for me to trust Christ's statements, Scripture's statements about satan being a fallen chief angel with a fierce hatered of God seeking vengeance on God by trashing all the individuals of God's favorite Creation that satan can get away with trashing and dragging to hell [whatever that is], with him. I have utter conviction that satan is a very real entity. He also happens to be the one that at least some of the ruling elite [the ones setting up the global government] worship and expect to win at Armageddon. Now, THAT's crazy.

God to me is not a single creature or entity (although it may well be), but an approximation of an abstract concept humans can not express in language and at best can be said to be that which everything originated from.

Well, that's the furthest thing from my experience as well as my study. Just doesn't fit AT ALL my experience of God. From extensive and quite varied experience, I'm enormously confident that He is 100% all that Scripture says He is. I've never experienced Him as you describe.

Chris