I always find it fascinating to listen and try to learn from other peoples' belief systems. Sometimes I find it hard, sometimes easy, sometimes in between. I am sure you guys find the same thing.

I did want to start this post to do one thing. I just want to show how it is possible to have a fundamental difference of opinion with another religion but still get along with it and respect it.

For example I was born Jewish. To me that is a whole package of things and believe it or not for me it is more of a cultural or ethnic or racial thing then just religion.

From a religious perspective I have never felt comfortable using one approach or being fixed to specific rules. That's just me personally. So I appreciate and enjoy parts of Jewish religion, but for me I have gone out and embraced parts of other religions pholosophie I like too and sort of mix them together.

Now for example, many people would think from a purely classical perspective that if one is Christian adn Jewish that the huge difference is that Christians believe Jesus was THE son of God and to be redeemed you do so through Jesus, whereas Jews would not believe Jesus was the son of God and so still pray directly to God.

There are many Jews and Christians who have worked to reconcile the aboev difference and I was influenced by of all people an anglican Priest, Ronald Reeve in this regard.

Here is how I can reconcile the difference. I would say to Christians, firstly that I respect their beliefs 100%. It is not that I disagree with them. Its not that I reject them. How I approach them though is like so; I see Jesus being A son of God, not THE son of God. I have absolutely no conceptual problems with anything else he said or preached because what he preached and said other then the one issue as to whether he was THE or A son of God are completely and absolutely no different then what Jews have always believed in and this should not be suprising considering Jesus was after all a Rabbiah and his reforms of Judaism adn in particular the structure of the Jewish house of worship was badly needed.

So when a Christian asks me whether we believe in the Golden rule, or sharing, or loving each other, etc., I say of course. The emphasis placed on the one difference in our religions in the whole scheme of things is minor. Unfortunately it was that one difference that has generated a lot of hatred and say when one listens to the Passion Play or reads back parts of Mathew or John, and read say the story of Pilates and Barabus adn the events leading up to the crucifixion it necessarily deals with a lot of pain and suffering and can lead to anger, resentment and hatred for what happened.

The challenge is not to let the suffering of Christ turn into a hatred for Jews for what happened to him or for that matter for Jews not to be afraid of Christians because after 3000 years we do not feel Christians will ever be able to reconcile the death of Christ with their feelings towards Jews as a whole.

I would say to Christians if I could, that a man who suffers and dies for what he believes in is an example for all of us to follow even if some of us perceive it in a different context.

I try learn from sermons attributable to Jesus as I do passages from Prince Sidharta, Lao Tzu, etc. There are many brilliant people who have had brilliant things to say. I look to the sayings and parables that bring people together and illustrate how oour beliefs are similiar not different.

I wrote the above because sometimes its hard for me to explain to a Christian that I do not mean to challenge their belief system when I say I read and study it, but do it in a different way.

I would loev Christians to be able to feel comfortable and look at Judaism and realize how much we actually have in common and that the difference as to who the messiah is does not change that at all.

As I get older I find the need to be organized in my religious thoughts and practice a particular method of worship too static. I love free floating and experiencing thoughts from different people. I find for example, that some people who tell me they are atheists or agnostics, are also deep spiritual people and simply using other words and concepts.

I have found for example the Buddist precepts that teach us to let go and just allow ourselves to be what we feel and not to struggle crucial in having enabled me to reconcile what I consider so many problematic things in traditional Judaism. I couldn't imagine even beiginning to feel comfortable about Judaism if I could not have learned from Taoists and Buddists and Bahaiis adn Unitarians and Jains and Hindus. They have all taught me to flex my mind and not be afraid to be afraid of being confused and impefcet so to speak.

There I just wanted to write that because I just wanted people to know its possible to believe in something but be able to believe in more then one thing at the same time- that's all.

I just thought I should write this given some of the other posts wher we have all been working hard debating our different beliefs. Its my way of saying good on you all for trying so hard to dialogue and it does help me for sure. It gives me spiritual strength as corny as that sounds.

Rube, your concept is like Bahai then. They try to combine every religios prophet all together, and compare like each one of them are the same person but come and go like the sun in each aera. Jewish and Christian will never agree to this then, because they both actually believe in the same thing but just about Mesiah.

Just imagine that one day, all human not accept God and prefer to be punish in hell after death, but they love each other because they know they all will be punished and they will not leave each other. Would this world become a better place?

I never understood why most people equate moral behavior and acts with religious belief. I'm an atheist and I consider myself very moral, and I don't expect a reward for it, nor fear punishment for acting otherwise.

I accept that religions threat people to become a believer so well.

Well I have to agree with you there Kiku - one certainly can be "moral" and not subscribe to a belief in a particular religion or God. I myself personally know people that would describe themselves as atheists and I think they try very hard to be moral and ethical in what they do. Kiku sometimes I feel religion is an excuse or pretense for people to be immoral...it may make it unintentionally easy to be immoral by giving people a false sense of decency which brings us back to some of the other posts. Tell you the truth Kiku I am not even sure what to call myself because while I believe in this marvelous thing behind everything I am not even sure the word God would capture what I feel or sense-its beyond words for me. I certainly could not logically tell an atheist what I feel - because it really comes down to just this gut faith or feeling I have, I am not sure its rational at all its like feeling a connection to a greater whole..I don't know what that should be labelled as and I guess it doesn't matter.

Toniol hahah I am not Bahaii or anything else. I just a me.. an ordinary everyday ordinary shmuck...hah hah... hey that sounds as good a label as anything!

On the same note I am atheist and I have a great respect for Islamic teachings because of the people who practice it I have talked with, its probably the only religion I have met up with that a member hasn't said I was going to hell or somehting alont those lines (even a hindu that I have talked with said the I was forsaken and would never reach enlightenment).

I actually like learning about new religions. Being a christian although I rarely go to church and what not, I do however repect everyones religion. I've read a little bit of the Torah or The Old Testament as most christians call it. The eastern religion are also interesting, infact I find Hinduism to be extreamly interesting.

I think so many Christians forget one big thing....Jesus was a Jew. Hello out there!!!
I enjoy learning about other religions as well and have very little patience for people who purposely insult or try to diss anyone's personal religion.

And Rube, I agree with everything you said....we have more in common than not. And I ,too , pray to God. He's not just Christian's God....He is everyone's God Almighty.:D

By the way, if I could rant about something vaguely related, why do I always see churches and whatnot still portray Christ as a European white man? I'm not religious or anything, but the principle of that irritates me more and more. Can all the white Christians please get over themselves? Christ, if he existed, didn't look white. If anything, he would've looked like Osama bin Laden. I've even seen a Korean version of Christ, which I believe is the best visual example of religion that I've ever seen.

kiku: Ha! I totally agree! About 2 months ago, the History Channel had a program on about Christ and how He would really look based upon the physical appearances of the people of the region from 2000 yrs. ago. They got a forensic scientist/artist and gave him the skull of a man from that period to produce a likeness.
The difference from the always lean and tall Christ was amazing. They estimated that Christ would have broad features, dark brown eyes, brownish/leathery skin from working out in the sun all the time, a short beard and bushy type eyebrows with hair to match, but not as long as depicted in paintings, etc.. It was a very impressive thing to consider what Christ really looked like and I'm sure it got a lot of people thinking!
:D:D:D:D:D:D

P.S.- Most of the pix of Christ you find in churches were painted many long years ago and I have yet to see any present day artist offer up a new depiction of the Christ.
All the masters of history have painted Christ as a white-looking man and it's hard to break with tradition .... I'm sure you'd hear a howl from the Vatican too! Politics.

I also read that Christ, if he existed, wouldn't have had long hair at all since it wasn't something that fit in the context of his supposed time of existence. It's one thing to be religious, but it's another less-respectful thing to believe and focus on something that does nothing but show off your flamboyant stupidity and lack of common sense. Worshipping a long-haired, tall white man from the Middle East thousands of years ago speaks for itself.

I did find this image.

Also, I thought before I said this, but I think saying to people that they may be flamboyantly stupid is too impolite. A little softer approach might help further the discussion.

Jesus did exist the question is did he do all those miracles or was he just a regular guy.


I have so far no reason to believe that this man didn`t exist.

Well for sure he would have been dark skinned and probably had semitic features. That would be logical. As for whether what he did was miracles or not, I think in perspective many of his so called miracles were his being able to use medical treatments the people of his day would not have understood so they would have seemed like miracles. There are people who believe he travelled to India and was introduced to medicine and Hindu and Bhuddist concepts which be brought back with him. Whatever stories or versions one believes it would appear as the bottom line that he cared for people. I guess that is the real point of the story - that he cared for people who were sick. I think we get carried away and sometimes miss the most simple and basic point that was being made - that it is a good thing to compassionate and help others. I think when humans discuss religion they have a tendency to skip the simple and make things too complicated and fill it full of guilt and vengance and anger and war, etc. Ah that's just me ranting. Sorry.

I was implying that you're flamboyantly stupid if you're... "Worshipping a long-haired, tall white man from the Middle East thousands of years ago...". I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

I'm a Christian, and I also highly respect people of other religions. I think it is sad that there are so many religions that say "our religion is the only way, and all others are going to hell". That just crazy. I believe that one should have entire free will to choose whatever religion they want, after careful consideration of the core message.

I find it fascinating that Jesus is the only figure of every single religion that preached a tolerance of other people and other religions. He had many parables in which he considered a non-Jew (Samarian) to be the better person at heart than a devote Jew, when that Samarian would help a fellow man in need.

Jesus was the only figure to preach the message of love and compassion for other people. Jesus was the only figure to connect to so many individuals personally, and to preach incredibly ageless messages with his parables. Many christians have lost sight of that core message, and Christianity has been tainted by individuals who persue their own agendas.

When you think of miracles, what religion comes to mind? When you think of places such as Fatama, all the saints, stigmata, and many other paranormal events, what religion comes to mind? When you think of the message "Love one another as I have loved you"...the list goes on.

I don't think Christians are concerned about the "image of a man" but rather the "message that the person gave".

If you feel that the religion focuses on what some figure looks like, then IMO thats a bit shortsighted.

Strange, I remember hearing about this figure named Buddha that lived until eighty, using his longevity to teach the platform of the religion he founded. All that time to construct a seemingly peaceful religion probably contributed to the lack of the Buddhist Inquisition and other violent histories founded upon the religion Jesus, the-only-figure-to-preach-the-message-of-love-and-compassion-for-other-people, founded himself.

I agree Swiss but, I think you'll find that religions, at least the majority, are very much concerned with outward appearances. Imagine any of the three biggies visualizing God as a WOMAN!