SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - More than 1,000 journalists have visited Guantanamo Bay since the U.S. military began locking up suspected al-Qaida and Taliban militants there 4 1/2 years ago. But access has been severely restricted: Journalists could not talk to detainees, they had to be accompanied by a military escort and their photos were censored. Now, the Pentagon has shut down access entirely -- at least temporarily -- expelling reporters this week and triggering an outcry from human rights groups, attorneys and media organizations even as the prison comes under renewed criticism for the suicides of three detainees last weekend.

From HERE

Looks like more fascist type tactics, now they are pretty much free to do whatever they wish now. Great. How democratic, I remember how they used the excuse when it first opened that the media could see into it, and used it as a example of how they have nothing to hide.

Very suspicious, but not too surprising!

Makes you wonder what they are gonna do next?

How many US prisons allow unrestricted access to detainees or secure areas of the facility? How many prisons deal with suicides on a routine basis?

Good questions 22.

I would guess that there are not any prisons that would allow just anyone to go through the prison walls without constant supervision for their own safety, and for security purposes.

As far as the suicides I don't know? I would imagine there are more murders between inmates than suicides in our prison systems.

The inmates of the US prisons have had a trial, they have been found guilty of crimes, the people in Guantanamo have no trial, and are kept for years illegally. The inmates of US prisons are allowed some forms of freedoms, and there imprisonments doesn’t insult there human rights, (in most cases anyway)

And all US prisons have some form of media access.

Guantanamo doesn’t allow the prisoners families to visits either, US prisons do.

US prisons have standards, and regular checks to insure fair play, Guantanamo doesn’t.

Guantanamo uses torture techniques, US prisons don’t (or are not supposed to)

A speedy trial is a constitutional right and one guaranteed to those bound to the constitution of United States. I'm not sure that applies...unless those detainess are citizens. Are they? Then their consitutional rights as citizens are being violated.



Not in secure, restricted areas. And not without special permission. And dont forget that Gitmo is a military prison which has different standards of security and access than civilian ones.



Visitation by family is considered a privilage, not a right. I'm not saying this right, its just the way it is.



So do military prisons. Regardless, it doesnt mean those standards are being met.



Define torture techniques. Some would argue that solitary confinement and withholding food is also torture.

I'm not defending what is happening in Gitmo as ethical or that it is not a gross violation of human right. It is. Yet, I can think of far worse violations of human rights that the world barely bats an eye at. Where is the media coverage for those violations?

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/...race/index.html

Hi 22

Not sure what that link was about, but thanks for showing it, its good people in Australia stand up for even the rights of prisoners. Because if some had there way, prisoners would be treated with evilness, which just makes society as evil as the people who rape murder ect.



Id like to see any American citizen (or anyone for that matter) settle for that explanation if there own son or daughter were kept in foreign prisons, that had little to no respect for human rights.



The media still had to get permission for Gitmo, and the Media are no physical threat to them, although its realised its a threat to them in the sense that it can expose there evils, hence why they have banned them, or the more “liberal media” should I say.



A perfect example of me using the argument again of…….. would you think like that (or just accept that) if your son or daughter was in there?



Gitmo has standards that meet its own agenda, it doesn’t meet the other western counties accepted rules of imprisonment.



Ill define common sense, anything that causes permanent physical or psychological harm. Physical harm should only be used under extreme circumstances, and even then every effort should be made to minimize it I think its obvious they don’t care about that in Gitmo.



Yes, but if America is going to have such prisons, then they have no right to call them selves a democratic fair society, or to claim to play apart in world wide accepted agreements on human rights, it cant sign something and agree to it, that other countries have done, then do something else, and just do just what it wants.

If you have not seen this all ready have a look. Has adult content.

The Guantanamo Guidebook: Torture Methods Used At Gitmo

The link is just to show that ill treatment of prisoners or detainees is not an American problem...in fact, its common place.

And Faeden, many foriegn prisons have little or no respect for human rights. See link below...


http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles...bdolbaqi_letter


http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html



Iran: Government Report Acknowledges Torture In Prisons
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/...847b175bf1.html

Of course none of this excuses the wrongs of another...again, I'm just stating that its common place and America is no different...

Guantanimo is a new low in human nature, Not supprised that they commit suicide, They invoke mental torcher on them and yet alot of them are innocent

Torture is bad enough, but they beat them, leave them in a room with deffening slipknot type music on for around 3-5 days, sometime even more than one week

With all these found out by reporters goin beond the line, its no supprise that they'd lock of all acsess

Hi 22



I know about the evils of Iran and other countries that do these things, not just to prisoners, but to there own people. I was talking about the American government who claim to be a respectful fair county. On one hand it criticises other country for human right abuses, when it suits them to use it against others, but then when it abuses human rights, and goes to war illegally, it arrogantly ignores its own hypocrisy and own wrong doings.

If the American government wants to be seen as the saviour superman of the world (that Bush obviously does) and be respected by the rest of the world, its going to have to practice what it preaches, rather than doing what it wants when it suits its own agenda, other wise it has no right to call it self a respectful and democratic government, or to complain about others around the world doing the same that they are.

What gets me is this, many conservative Americans and the Bush administration ramble on about how evil Muslim conservatives are when they behead people alive with swords for things they see as crimes, when many of the Bush supporting conservatives support frying people alive in the electric chair, do you see the hypocrisy I talk off? What’s more barbaric chopping someone’s head of, or frying them to death with electricity? Id say they are both evil, but beheading seems less painful. So how these Bush supporters can waffle on about beheadings, when they then selves normally support a more barbaric form of death is bizarre and a form of pure stupidity.

Not really. Can you name any individuals who simultaneously support the punishment of death by electrocution and condemn execution by beheading? Did you know that the beheading is done publically in Saudi Arabia? It is not just heads that they cut off either.

Again, which ones?

Hi Andrew

Please don’t pretend I am stupid, and lets not try and bend the truth or twist reality just to make excuses, you know as well as I do which ones I am talking about. Most Bush supporters support the death penalty, lets not pretend there are not millions of them, because there are. The Bush family love killing people on death row (and else where), its why G War Bush Jr gave the go ahead for many of them when he was the governor of Texas, and now his equally sicko brother the of governor of Florida is doing the same.

I know that just supporting Bush doesn’t mean you will support the death penalty, but its most of them. You know I do have a portal into the rest of the world, and have ways of learning about different political and religious beliefs of others outside my own country.

I am engaged to be married to an American, I am about to marry into an American Christian family (God help me LOL) I have loved America since I was a child, I have spent a long time learning about its goverment and its ways.

Another ironic thing is many conservative Americans agree with the death penalty, yet one of the ten commandments is "Thou shall not Kill" it doesn’t say 'Thou shall not kill (unless it suits you)'.

Conservative republicans all talk and preach hypocritical crap.

Death penalty is regullated by state gov't not federal. Most states that have a death penalty use lethal injection. only a couple states use the Electric chair but those sentenced o death are given the option of the chair or injection. Nebraska is the only state in the US where execution is carried out by electrocution. So tell me, how barbaric is lethal injection? And don't forget, the people on death row were not kidnapped and given due process. The people getting beheaded have nothing and get nothing. If anything, death was a merciful release.

You seem to be pretty passionate about the goings on in our country for somebody located in the UK. Gitmo is a federal military prison. As 22 mentioned there are different rules that apply to these prisons. I have had to deal with the military prison system in an official capacity occaisonally when I was in the service. Many cases there are no visiting rights, it all depends on the reasons of incarceration. A good example where a person would not be allowed visitation from friends or family would be passing sensitive information to the enemy/foreign gov't.

Not fully defending the situation at GitMo, but I find it interesting that people complain up and down about the treatment and rights of a person who would not think twice about the well-being of others and kill them in a heartbeaet given the chance.

Yes, and muslims claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Door swings both ways

You were not talking about the death penalty in general, you were talking about the electric chair in particular. The electric chair is no longer used in Texas, and it is an optional form of execution in Florida. The existence of a Bush supporter agreeing with death by electrocution is only half of what I require. Which of those also speak out against death by beheading in the Muslim world? Your in-laws to be, maybe? I am only seeking to determine if this hypocrisy is real and prevalent, or if it is just imagined.

First of all I apologise if I have offended anyone. But I don’t apologise for my beliefs.

Hi Busaiku

Yes it does swing both ways, do you think I am defending Islamic extremists ? Have another look through my posts, I condemn any form of extremisms that tolerates murder.

I am passionate about the wrong doings of your government because America is the most powerful county in the world, so its actions could effect me, and my family, and my county, so I have every right to be concerned about your governments corruptions, if you read in other threads I also talk the same about my own idiotic corrupt government, I also have a girl friend living in the states at the moment, which also makes me feel concerned.



If you know about how the person dies and what happens to the persons body its actually very barbaric, but yes its not as barbaric as electrocution, but also Gas is also pretty barbaric too, I actually believe beheading is one of the least barbaric of all the murder techniques, as there is no to little pain or suffering.



Are you aware how many of the hundreds of detainees they charged in Gitmo? Its hardly any.

Most of them have not done anything wrong, and would not kill me at all given half the chance.

Hi Andrew



Yes I was, and when Bush was in power it was the electric chair, why do people keep brining up completely other things that have nothing to do with what I was talking about? I was talking about Bush supporters and the electric chair. I was using the fact that Bush and his administration must support the death penalty by electric chair as he ordered many to die by it, and then to condemn beheading as it is hypocritical.

I hear republican conservatives using the evil Muslims beheading people all the time on forums and ones I have spoken to, its a favourite tactic, but there right, its evil beyond belief, but then so is any form of capital punishment.

Actually, Faeden...its 'Thou shalt not murder' but that is a matter for a theological discussion. I know what you are driving at. Yet, it would seem that the rest of the world holds America to a higher standard than they hold themselves to. God forbid that America should deny freedom to an innocent Muslim man...yet think nothing of the very freedoms that they deny their own women. But that is beside the point. I know. Yet look at it this way...if we argue that America should be held to higher standards than say...a third world county...by virtue of its status...then arent we also saying that a life in America is to be valued higher than a life in a third world country? What I mean is...why cry foul over America's human rights violations when their hands are just as bloody? Isnt an innocent but poor farmer detained in a Chinese prison worth just as much public outcry over inhumane treatment than a man in an American prison? But places like that aren't on the lips of others...no, its Gitmo, Gitmo, Gitmo..America this and America that...

Human rights violations are wrong no matter where they occur and no matter to what human they occur to...

Hi 22

I see what you mean, but if I lived in China id probably be bitching about the prisoners you talk about, I only talk about the American detainees because America claims to be a democracy, and has signed treaties, and American society is the same as mine, or nearly the same, and we seem to do everything with America without question, so its inevitable its going to raise more eye brows in other western societies. If my county was more like Chinas, and we went into illegal wars with them, id be bashing the Chinese government over the head with my whinging stick too.

If America was like China and openly admitted it tortured people, and did not claim to care about human rights then it would not attract so much interest, but they claim not to be doing anything wrong, yet they obviously are.



Thou Shalt Not Kill

Exodus 20:13 - Deuteronomy 5:17

Thou Shalt Not Kill

Thou Shalt Not Murder

Its obvious that people saw the do not kill command, and because many humans are violent, especially religious people, they did not like there Gods command, so they did what they have been doing since Christianity started, they twisted the words, shaped them into what suited them, so they could murder and call it something else.

How many people use the bible and use it to justify evil? Probably billions throughout history.

Changing it to murder is so convenient, as its easy for any societies laws to have its own version of murder, when its “do not kill” its a lot harder to manipulate into meaning something else.

Just like to state I don’t believe in the bible, God actually supports killing in the bible, so it makes his six commandment hypocrisy.