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Oct 30 2006, 12:51 PM
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#1
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![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 333 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 4,904 |
Habeas Corpus, R.I.P. (1215 - 2006)
With a smug stroke of his pen, President Bush is set to wipe out a safeguard against illegal imprisonment that has endured as a cornerstone of legal justice since the Magna Carta. by Molly Ivins AUSTIN, Texas - Oh dear. I’m sure he didn’t mean it. In Illinois’ Sixth Congressional District, long represented by Henry Hyde, Republican candidate Peter Roskam accused his Democratic opponent, Tammy Duckworth, of planning to “cut and run” on Iraq. Duckworth is a former Army major and chopper pilot who lost both legs in Iraq after her helicopter got hit by an RPG. “I just could not believe he would say that to me,” said Duckworth, who walks on artificial legs and uses a cane. Every election cycle produces some wincers, but how do you apologize for that one? The legislative equivalent of that remark is the detainee bill now being passed by Congress. Beloveds, this is so much worse than even that pathetic deal reached last Thursday between the White House and Republican Sens. John Warner, John McCain and Lindsey Graham. The White House has since reinserted a number of “technical fixes” that were the point of the putative “compromise.” It leaves the president with the power to decide who is an enemy combatant. This bill is not a national security issue—this is about torturing helpless human beings without any proof they are our enemies. Perhaps this could be considered if we knew the administration would use the power with enormous care and thoughtfulness. But of the over 700 prisoners sent to Gitmo, only 10 have ever been formally charged with anything. Among other things, this bill is a CYA for torture of the innocent that has already taken place. Death by torture by Americans was first reported in 2003 in a New York Times article by Carlotta Gall. The military had announced the prisoner died of a heart attack, but when Gall saw the death certificate, written in English and issued by the military, it said the cause of death was homicide. The “heart attack” came after he had been beaten so often on this legs that they had “basically been pulpified,” according to the coroner. The story of why and how it took the Times so long to print this information is in the current edition of the Columbia Journalism Review. The press in general has been late and slow in reporting torture, so very few Americans have any idea how far it has spread. As is often true in hierarchical, top-down institutions, the orders get passed on in what I call the downward communications exaggeration spiral. For example, on a newspaper, a top editor may remark casually, “Let’s give the new mayor a chance to see what he can do before we start attacking him.” This gets passed on as “Don’t touch the mayor unless he really screws up.” And it ultimately arrives at the reporter level as “We can’t say anything negative about the mayor.” The version of the detainee bill now in the Senate not only undoes much of the McCain-Warner-Graham work, but it is actually much worse than the administration’s first proposal. In one change, the original compromise language said a suspect had the right to “examine and respond to” all evidence used against him. The three senators said the clause was necessary to avoid secret trials. The bill has now dropped the word “examine” and left only “respond to.” In another change, a clause said that evidence obtained outside the United States could be admitted in court even if it had been gathered without a search warrant. But the bill now drops the words “outside the United States,” which means prosecutors can ignore American legal standards on warrants. The bill also expands the definition of an unlawful enemy combatant to cover anyone who has “has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States.” Quick, define “purposefully and materially.” One person has already been charged with aiding terrorists because he sold a satellite TV package that includes the Hezbollah network. The bill simply removes a suspect’s right to challenge his detention in court. This is a rule of law that goes back to the Magna Carta in 1215. That pretty much leaves the barn door open. As Vladimir Bukovsky, the Soviet dissident, wrote, an intelligence service free to torture soon “degenerates into a playground for sadists.” But not unbridled sadism—you will be relieved that the compromise took out the words permitting interrogation involving “severe pain” and substituted “serious pain,” which is defined as “bodily injury that involves extreme physical pain.” In July 2003, George Bush said in a speech: “The United States is committed to worldwide elimination of torture, and we are leading this fight by example. Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. Yet torture continues to be practiced around the world by rogue regimes, whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit.” Fellow citizens, this bill throws out legal and moral restraints as the president deems it necessary—these are fundamental principles of basic decency, as well as law. I’d like those supporting this evil bill to spare me one affliction: Do not, please, pretend to be shocked by the consequences of this legislation. And do not pretend to be shocked when the world begins comparing us to the Nazis. |
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| Google Bot |
Oct 30 2006, 12:51 PM
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Oct 30 2006, 12:59 PM
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#2
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,238 Joined: 11-February 06 Member No.: 3,621 |
Bush is an idiot, Atleast he shouldnt be able to win the next election this time.
Hmm reading through, The parts that desterbs me the most are, "Leading this fight by example" Then in next paragrapth "Throws out legal and moral restraints" I just quickly scanned it though, ill read through later to see if i got the wrong end of the stick |
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Oct 30 2006, 01:12 PM
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#3
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Posts: 1,193 Joined: 21-May 06 Member No.: 4,307 |
(Xeno;293294) Bush is an idiot, Atleast he shouldnt be able to win the next election this time.
He's served two terms. Technically he can't serve more unless he can drum up some sort of international crisis that demands that he stays in office... I can see that coming. Here, in Canada, our Prime Minister can serve as many terms as people are willing to vote him in for. |
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Oct 31 2006, 03:25 AM
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#4
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,394 Joined: 3-May 05 From: in between black and white Member No.: 2,277 |
shocking yet vexing
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Oct 31 2006, 06:40 AM
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#5
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![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 333 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 4,904 |
Seriously the "conspiract theorists" might be correct with a NWO. A police state is coming before anybody realizes it. Do you realize just by you opposing Bushs agenda they can detain you as an "Enemy Combatant" and you can oppose it no matter what. Thats what the Military Commissions Act is all about. This pisses me off.
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Oct 31 2006, 03:23 PM
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#6
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,279 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 1,443 |
(Understand;293441) Do you realize just by you opposing Bushs agenda they can detain you as an "Enemy Combatant" and you can oppose it no matter what.
I agree with you 110% on this. I'm waiting for the first American dissenter to fall prey to this. Of course, the media will sweep it under the rug as they always do. "Coming up next on CNN: Bob Jones is the first American to be labeled an enemy combatant after being caught at an anti-war rally. But the big story? The Chicago Bears are going to the Super Bowl." |
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Oct 31 2006, 05:21 PM
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#7
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 22-October 06 Member No.: 5,004 |
Check this: now the fed govt. has the right to take control of any state in the US, and order troops against our own citizens:
http://infowars.com/articles/ps/martial_la...martial_law.htm |
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Oct 31 2006, 06:11 PM
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#8
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Posts: 2,095 Joined: 18-November 05 Member No.: 3,184 |
(Understand;293441) Seriously the "conspiract theorists" might be correct with a NWO. A police state is coming before anybody realizes it.
We've heard of this NWO paranoia nonsense since the conception of the Bavarian Illuminati. It never comes, although there are (predictable) over-reaching of power from the executive branch of American government. North Korea is a police state, America is not. Slight contrast. |
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Oct 31 2006, 08:55 PM
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#9
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 22-October 06 Member No.: 5,004 |
(kiku;293505) We've heard of this NWO paranoia nonsense since the conception of the Bavarian Illuminati. It never comes, although there are (predictable) over-reaching of power from the executive branch of American government. North Korea is a police state, America is not. Slight contrast.
Sounds like you'd be the first candidate to get chipped and bar-coded. :surrender |
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Oct 31 2006, 11:51 PM
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#10
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![]() Color me skeptical.... ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 8,529 Joined: 8-May 04 Member No.: 631 |
(UST;293523) Sounds like you'd be the first candidate to get chipped and bar-coded. :surrender
While anything's possible so you might be right, when/if it happens to me, I'm going to blame all the wolf-criers for desensitising me to the message prematurely. |
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Nov 1 2006, 06:32 AM
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#11
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![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 333 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 4,904 |
That's right. Under the cover of a trumped-up "immigration emergency" and the frenzied militarization of the southern border, detention camps are being constructed right under our noses, camps designed for anyone who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of the Bush administration.
You will see me there soon I guess? LOL |
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Nov 1 2006, 01:21 PM
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#12
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,279 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 1,443 |
(UST;293496) Check this: now the fed govt. has the right to take control of any state in the US, and order troops against our own citizens:
http://infowars.com/articles/ps/martial_la...martial_law.htm One of the big rules of this forum is not to post links from places such as Prison Planet and Infowars. While people like me may enjoy reading them, others will mock you for not using mainstream sources, despite the fact that the mainstream media is pretty much government-controlled. Now, you can find an article on PrisonPlanet and do a Google search to find a "credible" source, which works in most cases. |
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Nov 1 2006, 03:33 PM
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#13
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Posts: 2,095 Joined: 18-November 05 Member No.: 3,184 |
As if Prison Planet and Infowars don't have an agenda and a fixed idea of everything already...
I just wanted to say we've heard about the detention camps and chips for years, if not decades (I'm only 20), so where is it? Where's the big government take-over? *rolls eyes* |
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Nov 1 2006, 04:50 PM
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#14
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 660 Joined: 6-May 06 From: cornwall Member No.: 4,164 |
(Numaul;293299) He's served two terms. Technically he can't serve more unless he can drum up some sort of international crisis that demands that he stays in office... I can see that coming. Here, in Canada, our Prime Minister can serve as many terms as people are willing to vote him in for.
but here in canukada... we cant "VOTE" like americans do... we gotta vote 4 a MP. and the team(liberal,conservatives...ext)that has the most MP's elected into the government gets into office... if we want lets say stephen harper of concervative to be prime minister, we need 2 elect a dumb idiot as our mp... its stupid... |
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Nov 1 2006, 05:03 PM
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#15
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,279 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 1,443 |
(kiku;293660) As if Prison Planet and Infowars don't have an agenda and a fixed idea of everything already...
I just wanted to say we've heard about the detention camps and chips for years, if not decades (I'm only 20), so where is it? Where's the big government take-over? *rolls eyes* I'll admit, Alex Jones comes off as being too anti-government, and too much of a propagandaist. |
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Nov 1 2006, 06:05 PM
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#16
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![]() Color me skeptical.... ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 8,529 Joined: 8-May 04 Member No.: 631 |
(kiku;293660) As if Prison Planet and Infowars don't have an agenda and a fixed idea of everything already...
I just wanted to say we've heard about the detention camps and chips for years, if not decades (I'm only 20), so where is it? Where's the big government take-over? *rolls eyes* That's what I'm saying, too. I first started hearing about it in the 1980's. |
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Nov 1 2006, 06:08 PM
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#17
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 22-October 06 Member No.: 5,004 |
(Angry_Jerk;293668) I'll admit, Alex Jones comes off as being too anti-government, and too much of a propagandaist.
Why don't you call up and debate him on his syndicated radio show? You know if you disagree with him, you automatically go to the front of the line. Govt. takeover, where is it? Going along right as planned - can't you see it all around you? The entire US legal system is being slowly re-written piece by piece. Can you really blame people for freaking out? Can you blame people for being scared? Can you blame people for being concerned? Can you blame people for not being happy with new laws that 10 years ago you thought you'd never ever see in America? Aren't you concerned about police showing up to grade school kids and pointing guns to their heads as part of some insane drill? Can you blame people for being concerned about having their land grabbed for a NAFTA highway? Can you blame people for being concerned about US, Canada, and Mexico merging and putting each other's military and police in each other's states, when we all know that Mexico has crazy leaders that mow down protesters like flys? Can you blame people for being concerned that N. Korea has nukes, and we play it off like its nothing and go after weaker countries that have no such things? And lastly, how can you have the cocky vulgarity to blame people who are upset because they are being scared into submission? |
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Nov 1 2006, 06:32 PM
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#18
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,279 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 1,443 |
(UST;293676) Why don't you call up and debate him on his syndicated radio show? You know if you disagree with him, you automatically go to the front of the line.
Never said I disagreed with him. And I don't listen to his radio show, so no point in calling it. |
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Nov 1 2006, 06:59 PM
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#19
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 22-October 06 Member No.: 5,004 |
So that brings us to the question WHO is really spreading real propoganda?
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Nov 1 2006, 08:00 PM
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#20
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![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 333 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 4,904 |
The Military Commissions Act is a fact people. Not some 'conspiracy theory'.
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