Destiny or fate
Everything is said to be predetermined.
That all the choices have been made.
And that choice is nothing more than an illusion.

Do you believe that everything in your life has already been set?

I believe that Destiny or fate must exist.
My logic explains that without Destiny or fate
A future would not exist.

There are times I believe destiny is against me, but I really dont believe my life is set from birth. I believe your life is what you make it, screwy or great. But , I also believe there are events in ones life that you have no control over , they just happen.

Makes sense
But I believe the sense that you have control
over anything in life is false.
At first the sense of control seems to be thier
you decide to go to the mall, the park, and hang with friends.
But then you slowly realize that you cannot know the future
and if you do not know what will happen how can you have control?
I believe that every aspect of your life is uncontrollable.

Predetermined means that a sentient being exists, so no I do not beleive in destiny by definition. But everything will only happen one way because all events (to the extent of what is known) are based upon prior variables.

But if the existence of a sentient being is denied
then a course of the future cannot exist
everything would change accordingly

The destruction of a possible future through
the actions of one man,woman ,or child
may create an entirely new future

To create you must first Destroy
but if destiny or fate does not exist
then there is no future to destroy
so no new future can be created.

Prior Variables?
How can Prior variables affect the future?
By the effect they have on the the choices you make?
But isn't Choice nothing more than an illusion?
To have real choice you must be free
but you are fettered by emotions
Society
and others perceptions
Therefore choice does not exist.

Am i misinterpreting something?
or did i not understand what you meant?

What Pred ment was prior physical variables. If you know all the variables in a system, you can calculate (or determine) all the outcomes. Those who support dualism say that our minds are outside the physical mechanism. That means free will can interact with the determined sequence of events in a system, whilst at the same time not be subjected to physical mechanisms itself. As an example:
A tree has an apple hanging from it. One can determine when, where, and how the apple will fall from the tree if we know all the variables (wind speed, temperature, etc). But if free will exists, a person can alter the event by -say- catching the apple.


An argument against this is that one's choices are affected by society and one's genes, but that our free will is not made up by it. In other words: spontaneity is undeterminable.

But free choice is mandated by the state of neurons in the brain, each state is caused from various variables like genetics and stimuli.

I have no idea...I guess technically I think it's all predetermined, but the illusion of free will is very strong.
But logically, it does seem that it's actually predetermined.

We don't know that for a fact. The argument is that the self is housed in our body, and interacts and cooperates and governs our body, but is not of the body. That the self is not controlled by the laws of physics, because it's not physical. I haven't heard the reasoning behind it, as I have some trouble figuring out how something non-physical can interact with something physical. Personally I agree with you.


That's also my conviction. But it's very annoying when you think about it, isn't it? Never able to act or think independently.

How can everything be predetermined? That would mean that time lines exist and that you could fast forward anytime to the past or future if the only time that exists is now then how can something be predetermined?

Think of dominoes.
Line up a bunch in a row, push one over, and you can bet the rest will fall, right?
The second one doesn't just fall by chance, nor the third, or fourth, etc.

In the same way, what we do now is because of the past. And what we do now will create the future.
So it's like the domino effect, just much more complex.

Well let us speak about the mind
The mind is non-physical
and an idea is non-physical
yet they both affect the physical world
the idea to catch the apple.

You could then argue that the mind is nothing more than a sensation
I would agree, that it's a sensation of consciousness.
but one could argue that the mind is the result
of interactions of neurons and the brain and mind are the same
this view suggests that the mind and idea are both physical

A popular view on conceptualizing and memory is this: An idea or a memory is a pattern of neurons in the brain. For instance, when you think of an idea or a concept, you remember it. You can make sure you remember it by connecting the idea to other ideas and memories via associations. If one connection of neurons is broken, then you still have others to "find" the idea with, and so you remember it.

Back in the 19th century when all physical systems were described by differential equations people imagined a 'clockwork universe' in which all future states are determined by the existing, or previous, state. In quantum mechanics events occur probabilistically from one state to another. Future states occur according to probability distributions and are not determined exactly by earlier states. At least, not according to what we can know. Haven't you heard of Einstein (who was a determinist) famously objecting at this quantum mechanical view that "God does not play dice!"? Don't think that we have all of the nature of reality all figured out, because we don't. The nature of conscoiusness is not something remotely understood by science, and neither do we fully comprehend the nature of time.

some things yes but a human being making a decision I don`t feel is always predetermined.

actually believe it or not one time when I was a child I did that with dominoes and after several times one time not all fell over one was leaning on the other but didn`t knock it over.

Talking about chance that can also mean we are not here on this earth because of chance but life was predetermined to exist no?


So life is not here because of a set of chance events rather a set of predetermined events the universe already knew life was to come into existence.

And what knocked the first domino over?

What you have to destinguish between is whether or not a sentience decided to have the predetermined causality unfold, and wether or not the laws of physics made it unfold by their nature alone.
Predetermanism works through the laws of physics (that's how empirical science can predict outcomes), and work on their own all the way back to, as Andrew points out in the next post, the first cause. The first cause is what started it all. If we say that the Big Bang was the birth of the universe, then something caused it. Something made the universe go bang.


Some say God is the first cause. So we make God the non-physical first cause. God must thus be unchangable, since change in volume, form or movement is a physical reaction to a cause. And if something caused God to change, there must be a cause that resulted in God, which means that God is not the first cause. How then, if God is unchanging physically, can he/she/it interact with the physical world? It's the same problem as with how a non-physical soul can interact with a physical body.

No I don't. I personally believe I was born with free choice and destiny is how and whether I am willing to take responsibility for my actions and whether I choose to make choices.

I don't believe that a God has imposed a plan and I am just a mindless puppet. I believe the very reason humans screw up and commit such horros is precisely because we have free choice and some of us because of how we exercise it hurt others. I think the future and the past and present are all illusions. I believe time is an illusion, but I believe free choice or the power to create our own destinity is within us and our destiny is nothing more then the consequences of whether we choose to be responsible for our individual actions or not.

But its just an opinion. I can't proof what I am saying at all. I am just giving you my personal feedback.

What if
Everything was as it seemed?
Somtimes I get the idea that "Maybe I'm over thinking the problem"