Christians believe that Friday was the Day Jesus died
Muslims believe that Friday was the day a False Jesus died
and the day the Real jesus accended to heaven

Both Muslims and Christians believe Jesus came back
to earth on Monday.

Muslims believe a traitor to Jesus was put in Jesus's image and killed on the cross

Muslims believe Christians Worship a False Jesus on the Cross.

Christians believe Jesus was killed on the Cross.:headscrat

Was It or was it not Jesus who died on the cross?

There's a line of reasoning that argues Jesus was not "crucified" at all.

The notion of "crucifixion" stems from a misinterpretation of the Greek verb stauro, originally meaning "put up a palisade, fence in" and suchlike (the noun stauros being a "post" or a "stake" or (in the plural) a "palisade").

The crucifixion seems to be a side issue in the Gospels, an incidental event very different to how it was later interpreted by Christians.

"And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them" as Mark puts it, almost as if the parting of garments and casting lots were more important.

A Greek of the period would have understood the sentence to mean "when they had "palisaded" him, they rent their own garments and cast pieces on it". "Palisaded" means put up a (funeral) pyre.

The whole scene describes the setting up of a funeral pyre in the traditional Roman mode. Here's Appianus' account of Caesar's funeral (Civil War 2:148):

"There they collected together pieces of wood and benches, of which there were many in the Forum, and anything else they could find of that sort, for a funeral pyre, throwing upon it the adornments of the procession, some of which were very costly..."

So Jesus was never "crucified" in the first place, according to this view.

Many of the other hard-to-interpret statements of the Gospels concerning the "crucifixion" have been reinterpreted in this manner (as has much else). The total inaccuracy of our Bible translations is the most amazing thing about it.

http://www.carotta.de/

There is another view: that Jesus survived the Crucifixtion by cleverly planning and arranging all the details. Over thirty years ago I read a most revealing book entitled 'The Passover Plot.' I cannot locate my copy of this book in my library so I'll have to provide you the following from memory.

What I remember from the author (a Bishop I believe) was that the Bible indicates that Jesus had many friends who he could call upon for favors. Like the unamed person Jesus requested the disciples to contact in order to acquire the jackass he used to ride into Jerusalem with. Then there is the rich man Joseph of Arimathea who conveniently requested the body of Jesus only hours after his impalement.

Dotted with Scriptural references that posed intriguing questions the author proceeded to show that the timing of Jesus betrayal (handing over) could not have been better. Knowing that the Sabbath was near there was a short window of opportunity available, if properly executed, for Jesus to be able to escape death.

One account says Jesus, after stating he was 'thirsty' (a code phrase?) was given a mixture of water and vinegar (or heavy sedative?) to drink. Ordinarily vinegar causes stimulation to the body, however the text states Jesus almost immediately expires after drinking it. Historical accounts state that most victims of crucifixtion took 2 or more days to die. Yet Jesus, a 'perfect' man, dies (appears to be dead) within three hours.

In order to hasten and ensure death, so that the bodies could be removed before the dawn of the Passover, a Roman soldier made an exception in Jesus' case. (from a bribe?) Instead of the customary breaking of the legs, which forced the victims lungs to collapse causing the victim to suffocate, the soldier elected instead to pierce his side with a spear. (a planned non-lethal flesh wound?)

Then you have Jesus' numerous appearances after his 'death' but before his bodily ascension into Heaven in which nobody who knew him recognizes him visually but rather only through certain words and gestures do they come to believe he must (might?) be the Lord.

The book totally enthralled me! I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.
__________________________

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." Winston Churchill

Seems more like the works
for a fictional novel.

Too much Action and suspense
The Anticipation.
Doesn't seem to move with reality

"And for saying [in boast]: “We killed the Christ, Jesus, son of Mary, who was an apostle of God;” but they neither killed nor crucified him, though it so appeared to them. Those who disagree in the matter are only lost in doubt. They have no knowledge about it other than conjecture, for surely they did not kill him, but God raised him up (in position) and closer to Himself; and God is all-mighty and all wise" (Koran, sura 4:157-158).

I have to agree with hapax - the nearest literal translation of stauros which is the earliest reference we have to how Jesus died would be 'torture stake' - We know the torture stake was employed by the Romans and it makes complete sense therefore that Jesus didn't actually die on a cross (more so given that there were chronic wood shortages in the area - adding an extra cross beam would have been wasteful) - the point is somewhat academic however as no-one really wants to give up the wonderful iconic image of Christ on the cross. Quite simply though - he didn't die on a cross....

Ben

"Christians believe that Friday was the Day Jesus died
Muslims believe that Friday was the day a False Jesus died
and the day the Real jesus accended to heaven"

Not really sure what "Friday" and "Monday" have to do with it at all..lol

Which is why there aren't any ancient crosses left over from Rome...and the stakes were re-used over and again.
I think they have found only one...yes?

Jesus isn't dead. He is still alive. He will return from the sky.(not being sarcastic)

Should I be looking up then?

Anyway I thought it was Michael the Messiah who was coming back and not Jesus?

Ben

When Jesus ascended into heaven, the Bible tells us in Acts 1:9 that "...He was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." A cloud received him. It was there ready to take him. It could have been a dull grey vehicle, or it could have been a vapor around the vehicle.

Mark 14:62 says: "And Jesus said, I am; and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Luke 21:27, "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:30, "...and they shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Revelation 1:7, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him..."

Thessalonians 4:13-16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

What if there are no clouds in the sky when He chooses to return?

Matthew Chapter 17 speaks of the transfiguration atop Mr. Hermon of Jesus along with Moses and Elijah which was witnessed by three of Jesus' disciples. Verse 5 says: "...behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." It is interesting to note that Jesus' face glowed very much like Moses' did when he went into the cloud to commune with God.

If you do a search in the index of the Old Testament on 'cloud(s)' you will find the dozens of references to Gods' Presence indicated by and accompanied with a cloud. More than a few persons have stated that the greatest written testament to the existence of mysterious flying vehicles is the Holy Bible.

Isaiah 60:8, asks: "Who are these that come flying just like a cloud...?" And so people of today ask the very same question.

If modern day Christians expect to see Jesus return just as He left and to be taken away with Him just as He was taken away, then they should not be surprised, when they pierce the veil of the cloud, to see some sort of aerial machine, perhaps even a flying saucer!

And for those of you who think He might be too late to fulfill His own prophecies, consider this:

http://www.alien-ufos.com/forum/showthread...9339#post279339

___________________________
'Some things have to be believed to be seen.' Ralph Hodgson

I was alluding to that so people wouldn't flip out on me. Jesus will return in a flying saucer.

There seems to be a common thread of thought in all of your writings (This Forum) many of you have decided to believe the lie, that Jesus was only a man, a fallible creature of human desire who procreated with woman to have off spring, for what purpose I ask, Jesus clearly stated that he was the son of the living God, through his own free will he obeyed the Father in laying down his life for ours, God is not a murderer, quite the opposite, he has been putting up with mankinds non-sense since the fall, if we choose not to believe that the Holy Bible is the Inspired word of God & merely the rantings of some old dudes then we feel safe from any retribution of Judgement. That means we can throw off conventional religion and live by our own sense of direction without God, wait a minute isn't that what happened to the Israelites in the Wilderness? They experienced the awesome power of God first hand and still refused to believe it,......This is the crux isn't it, if you decide there is no God then we ourselves can become as Gods...cause God is dead.....if we have to face the possibility of a real live God then you owe it to yourselves to start searching for him with all your heart and all your soul, but......I suspect that people really want to believe the lie, instead of being responsible, and a good place to start is the 10 commandments God gave Moses, the first commandment tells us to start with God first.....don't worship creation but the one who created it all....hey that's OK because soon God will get your attention as in the words of Revelation (Thats because God knows Movies have spectacular effects) I guess the loss of 1/3rd of the Heavens would sort of get peoples attention and that's just one of the events. "Choose this day whom you will serve, as for our house, we will serve the Lord" At the end of the day God will ask, did you believe in my son? Sadly all I see & hear are convenient excuses

The one we call God is a physical person! He had physical descriptions and a name! There is no supernatural force my friend. You have no idea what "the lie" is because you are basing it off false facts. God actually YaHWeH ,since god isn't even in the original texts, had many many many accounts of physical encounters. To most people God represents the Omnipotent force of creation or even the infinite universe. Tell me how the infinite universe would get involved in so many physical encounters and holster a name. Don't give me some magical mumbo jumbo on spirits going into physical bodies.

Actually the Lord Almighty didn't actually give his name for some time, he simply called himself "I am", now if you think carefully about that there is hidden meaning behind that, but any how your really missing the point, that is because many are listening to falsehoods of there own ideas of God, come on God isn't some impersonal Force or the created universe, look mate I believe the Bible, I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God who died for us so that we wouldn't have to spend eternity lost. Mankind has a certain number of days in which to live this life and we all have to choose our belief, if the Bible is a lie, then we got nothing to worry about, but boy if its true, you better get things right before your creator, in the 46 years I have been here on Planet Earth, there is nothing more important than developing a personal relationship with your creator, all other issues are far less important...but hey great to stir up the grey noodle you all calls brains...bring it on.

You 'believe' the Bible? Even when scientists and scholars have shown that not only is much of it historically innacurate but that much of it was penned during the medieaval period? You believe the contradictions?

I respect the fact you're on God's side but no-one in this day and age can say that the bible is 'believable' because it contains so many falsehoods and later inclusions as well as being 'hand picked' by the council of Nicena - there are 'parts' of the bible one can believe in - no problem at all and I respect that of anyone - but one cannot 'believe' the bible as a whole when it neither 'adds up' or reflects facts which are now known to us and proved using the scientific method.

At the theological level I would ask you this - explain away please how the Messiah had to be born from the line of David (And a huge geneaology is presented in the bible to show that Jesus does indeed come from the line of David) - One wee problem though, it lists Joseph as his father to justify claims that genetically speaking Christ is from the line of David - but we all know from the bible that God stuck him in Mary - not Joseph......

Can we hear what your grey matter thinks on that one?

Thanks!

Ben

Its 2:30 am and I just got back from a night out of drinking so I will make this short.Being 21 is rough
LOL.
Speedfreak have you read the original Hebrew texts of the Bible? I would like to know where the "Lord Almighty" prefers to call himself I am.
The Hebrew Texts ARE THE ORIGINAL TEXTS so nothing latter is relevent.
There are two words that are in the Hebrew Bible that are wrongly translated in later Bibles. The word Elohim which means THOSE who came from the sky. This word was wrongly replaced by God. Also there is name YHWH aka Yahweh which is replaced by LORD in latter versions. Thank you for your time I need to go to sleep

Well if you want to hear a scientific view or a scholar then you go ask them, not me, especially that one about the scientific method, since science is the study of things already created by God Almighty himself, the marvels of creation show the manifest work of the hand of God, (Intelligent design I believe) even a child could tell you that, the knowledge aquired by scientists was already there waiting to be discovered, of course even scientists "Fudge the results" especially when backed up by powerful Universities and Industry self interest groups.

Joseph was simply the Earthly caring father of Jesus who was going to marry Mary, he was the person who would provide the Male role model of the baby, the child, then later the man, the genetics came from God himself, the creator of DNA, I mean he would know what to do right, since he made it.

Do you know why?

Jesus acknowledged God the father but also honored his earhly parents as instructed under the Ten commandments.

mate what you really need is a personal relationship with God.

This is the whole crux isn't it, you believe the Bible is unbelieveible & full of contradictions, then I challenge you to go seek God for yourself, don't tell me what some scientist or theologian thinks, or whats written in some popular book, because years from now someone else is gonna comeup with something else that will refute that (just think of the money they'll make-suckers).

I'm not on Gods side, he doesn't need sides, he is God Almighty mate, he is the beginning and the end, he is complete, he holds all of creation in his hand, he is the Master of the Universe, he is the Ultimate time Lord, he has unlimited power, he knows all and sees all and understands, yet despite his awesome power he wants to get to know each and everyone of us on a Daily basis...Period!

Ad infinitum absurdim....

Sigh....It's hard to say I respect your opinions when I'm obviously trying to burn them but I do - can you not see though how you are trapped in a delusory 'mind set' in relation to the nature of how you think about God? What I mean quite simply is that if God explains everything (which is the argument you are putting forward) - then GOD EXPLAINS NOTHING!

Ben

Edited to add - By that I mean, that if God explains everything then you may as well say a giant green jelly bean explains everything or a copper teapot floating in space - God explaining everything is at complete variance with all known philosophy, all known reason, all known science, all known ANYTHING except for those who 'WANT' to believe it...and we can all 'want' to believe anything......

Another explanation that people commonly use is that God is an omnipotent force that represents the infinite universe. How would this work? This would go against anything your holy book says. Being that the Bible portrays "god" in many physical confrontations this cannot be. What does the infinite universe care if you die or not or whether you say your prayers?