I am watching a History channel thing on UFOs etc... right now, same old hooha with a few updates. Then this Expert Psycologist comes on and says all the people she's examined who had abduction memories only recalled them after hypnosis...

Gotta say to ya Crazy Shrink Lady, I guess you haven't met me.

Never been to a hypnotist, never discussed these things with any Doctor of any sort. I just, one day was triggered by something and it all came back to me.

So there!

Eat my shorts. :mad:

Was this the show about the people in England??

What these shows dont tell the viewer is there are many sciences that have did their own tests which show there is something important going on and not just in peoples minds...

Such as Dr Mack (R.I.P) from Harvard...Princenton Universitys Paranormal Testing Section-Russia..all over the world actually.... Where there results show the complete opposite...

I guess RW its the for every action their is an equal and opposite reaction. And one of those reactions is skepticism...

I do think though, that we are closer to science taking it seriously as there own Hyper dimensional research is taking them in this direction and are starting to question the skeptical responses.

Bill Chalker and his science team who did the worlds first DNA PCR tests on two alledged hair samples and came back with very interesting results.

I was wide awake too...as I said before, one time with the light on reading a book...

Silly people just irk me a bit. How can you judge correctly without having a decent set of facts... she should be ashamed of herself. Let me go find out what show and I'll figure out who she is and send her a nice note telling her how silly she is...

Ah here she is... Dr. Susan Clancy

Anyone know anything about this person?



Ah, here she is...

"In her book "Abducted," due in October, Dr. Clancy, a psychologist at Harvard, manages to refute and defend these believers, and along the way provide a discussion of current research into memory, emotion and culture that renders abduction stories understandable, if not believable. Although it focuses on abduction memories, the book hints at a larger ambition, to explain the psychology of transformative experiences, whether supposed abductions, conversions or divine visitations.

"Understanding why people believe weird things is important for anyone who wishes to know more about people - that is, humans in general," she writes. "

Nice and trite...

I do believe I've been called weird...

Seems like now Dr Mack had passed away shes come out the woodwork...Id like to know what she thinks of Macks work...They are both from the same Uni...

These people who say they can conjure up an alien experience cannot conjure up being awake at the time and not being scripted towards an event like this....

Most of these so called "Controlled Experiments" deprive the subject of light and make them fall asleep, which as you said many of us were wide awake..I had the light on as Ive said many times reading a book once......

When a human is exposed to darkness as in these experiments you can conjure up anything, (ask the CIA and prisioners how they make them confess-either bright lights or total blackness) but when you go to bed and are not in a total black room then there experiments do not mimic the real life experience does it...They try to make the subject see something, I dont see something everytime I close my eyes do you??

Its a controlled experiment with volunteers, (who know that they have volunteered for some experiment dont they? Just not the true nature of the experiment) who volunteers for a visitation or abduction experiment?

Her experiments also should be able to conjure up these visitations everytime.but do they??

One last comment...seeing a dark shape in some of these experiments to me does not constitute what Ive seen, that is the face of these beings..Or having the "feeling of someone near the foot of the bed"...I had no feeling I saw them...

Seeing them touch my ankles, watching another being with an instrument which I drew as soon as they left...I saw their ship...

Did these people in the experiments have the drive to get up and draw what they had just seen??Or did they just describe while they had black masks on there eyes?

I can shut my eyes tight and see things too , but nothing like I encountered while wide awake..

Some of these people claim that they can see things in these experiments everytime. I do not see beings everytime I go to bed, actually hardly never!

The use of hypnosis to recover repressed memories is now considered an outdated, dangerous and even bogus form of therapy by mainstream psychiatry. Hundreds of innocent people were imprisoned for child abuse on false evidence. The reason was that therapist used invasive therapy and hypnosis to obtain what we now know were untrue “repressed” memories of childhood abuse. Hundreds of these false cases are now well documented.

The same occurred with pre-schools across our land, and in many cases, hypnosis was not even needed to implant the false memories.

Hypnosis does not recover accurate data at all and scientific test have shown this to be so repeatedly. Human memory is very faulty in the best of circumstances. That memory when retrieved by a third party is at its most vulnerable to the manipulation of the hypnotist being it deliberate or not.

Anyone who accepts this kind of data at face value is unwilling to accept the bare facts about this kind of data.

In the 80's especially in England hundreds of parents were as you said falsely accused of child abuse, even in the U.S. ROSANNE claimed under hypnosis she was abused and later retracted this statement...

Although in the right hands I would not totally ignore it...Hypnotherapy is a good tool in supressing cravings for food and cigarettes etc...

In the new field of Abductions and visitation research though it would be up to the individual as to how much information was relayed through the hypnotist.

Many Ufologist in Australia use the Australian Hynotheraphy Association of which one of the heads is used..These show that the hypnotherapist in these accounts did not lead with any questions as they were not told of the event that they were hypnotising for.

That came out by the subject in the course of the session.

But as a tool for proving this exists Dr Mack (R.I.P) had very good success...He did prove that the abduction phenomena did have traumatic events in the persons story conclussive with a traumatic event that was real, not imagined...

The current theory is that it is impossible for a Hypnotherapist not to lead the person being inquired since hypnosis itself is no longer even considered valid. Groups like the Australian Hypnotheraphy Association are not neuro-science, medical psychiatric or A.P.A. scientificly peer approved organizations. Hypnotism has found itself sunk into the relm of pseudo-scence. It has no one to blame but itself. The research has been shoddy and incomplete. Hypnosis has been used to try and convict numerous innocent people and they are still being released from prison. As I said before repressed memory is not even considered as valid, period, end of comment. Most in the profession consider all alien abductions hypnosis to be totally false, including the trauma. In other words the trauma is as false as the trauma was in the trauma in the false childhood abus cases. False trauma memories are no different than false abduction memories.

I disagree that it is totally false..Dr Macks work and others showed it wasnt....I have been hypnotised (even though I was wide awake in my experiences -just to see what would transpire) and no-one led me, they didnt even ask any questions, just said...tell us about your life and I did..

In that I saw certain things which no-one could tell me to think or say as it was a real memory I saw...This memory was me playing soccer at age 6..I have a photograph of this....But didnt realise I did until I was shown it by family members at a later date..

you said: Groups like the Australian Hypnotheraphy Association are not neuro-science, medical psychiatric or A.P.A. scientificly peer approved organizations.

Say what!!!! Do you know who the head of this org is?? Obvioulsy not!!!

I disagree, that it is totally false..Dr Macks work and others showed it wasnt....I have been hypnotised (even though I was wide awake in my experiences -just to see what would transpire) and no-one led me, they didnt even ask any questions, just said...tell us about your life and I did..

In that I saw certain things which no-one could tell me to think or say as it was a real memory I saw...This memory was me playing soccer at age 6..I have a photograph of this....But didnt realise I did until I was shown it by family members at a later date..But I didnt see the photograph/ picture I was kicking the ball and running in what I saw.

you said: Groups like the Australian Hypnotheraphy Association are not neuro-science, medical psychiatric or A.P.A. scientificly peer approved organizations.

Say what!!!! Do you know who the head of this org is?? Obvioulsy not!!!

By the way I Agree with you on hypnotherapy not being a good tool for abductions, just I disagree on the blanket statement that all hypnotheraphy is false or has proven to have no scientific value..

Im sure scientific america and science magazines who have done brilliant articles on these subjects would disagree...

How can a person lead another if they dont know what the hypnotised person is going to say?? If they lead them with alien questions then they are not doing there job right...

I mean they ask; "Okay what happened on the night of such and such"...Id say I wouldnt have a clue..But if he went the night of the encounter" that is leading me...

The hypnotherapists here that deal with abductions do not lead, they painstakingly veer the subject from any preconcieved notions by them or the subject.

They know not to.

As you said current theories, only theories...

I have watched a session with a known abductee here and no-one led them at all...In fact they were surprised at what did come out as they were only there for marriage counselling.

It turned out that alien beings were tormenting this mans wife and she would wake up angry with him because he used to tell her to be quiet in her sleep-he denied anything of the kind and under hypnotheraphy sessions this came out....Not only do they see beings in broad daylight, they see other beings much smaller and it is a remarkable case...other people visiting there home also see them...who know nothing of these beings before..

I know the work of Dr Clancy very well.....of course one can disagree with it but I really don't see how anyone can criticise her for saying that all the abduction cases she has examined were only recalled after hypnotherapy - that is a fact! It's not her fault that this is how they panned out - you see I too believe in ALiens and UFO's but when a scientist makes a statement of fact is it any wonder that they and other scientists shake their head in disbelief at the reaction of the 'UFO' community when they don't actually take cognisance of what is being said - she didn't say 'All abductions', she didn't say all alleged abductees - she said 'The ones I have examined'.....do we really know better than her who she examined?

Ben

good point Ben...

Still she should have found someone with abduction memories who hasn't gone to the hypnotist... there seems to be a few of us out there.

Yes and I am surprised by her not 'finding any' - which does make one wonder if she has been selective with who she has 'examined' - now that's an argument that could bite her in the ass lol....

Ben

BINGO... thanks for putting into words what I was really trying to say Ben. SOmetime I get a little verbose and stray.

Cheers Mate!

RWT

TC and RW, I would like to ask you a question about this . Why do these drs. feel they need to show that these memories are false? Are they afraid or is it something deeper?

They have a need to explain the mystery away within their own perceptual scientific boundaries so that they can continue to percieve the world as they do, albiet a limited view as it is.

There is more to heaven and earth than we mere mortals can every know...

Ben....who said she is correct in her assupmptions though...Science is not one experiment!!!

A statement of FACT, well that is debatable, you cant have fact till its recognised by the entire Science community Ben not one or even a handful of them, science does not work that way, "her opinion", you should have said on what she has found, others find the opposite.

yes Ben, but it still doesnt mean that they didnt have the encounter does it...it just show her tests show that they didn't after the FACT..She could probably show I didnt have my encounter either...what does that prove, I know I did!!!

To me that means that while promising its not accepted by all scientists, othwerwise youd have many more coming out saying she is correct. Not that I believe all encounters anyway Ben...I mean I dont beleive Whitley Strieber at all!!!

At the moment Ben I am fascinated by the work of Pysicists who claim the opposite to her..that these encounters brake no law of physics in fact there new research almost says these type of encounters should happen frequently!

It seems that most scientists try to go out of their way to prove that nothing is hapening...Yet there own work is taking them down the same lines..Higher dimensions, gravity free tunnels throughout the systems...The ides of being in two places at the same time etc..

How many experiments of the same people did she conduct?? Did she re-test them at a later date? Was there independant confirmation of these tests?? Did anyone else write there own conclussions based on there own testing of her material/data??

Not that I dont agree, just I dont like this blanket statement that says that everyone suffers the same thing who were own hypnotised. The reason the person went to the hypnotist in the first place was recalling flashes or recalling memories of lost time or something hapened that night or day..

Unless her experiments had the subjects seeing not recalling these beings.

People just dont go and say I think i had an alien encounter hypnotise me.there has to be some trigger to make you feel that way, not just a web site or a tv show said this is what an vistation or abduction would be like, ..

Do you have any missing time, scoop marks bloody noes, those type of leading questions could be for any age and anyone, and really dont prove a thing but could!!..