Forget the 'Washington merry-go-round' UFO incident (which debunkers are at a complete loss to explain):
http://www.alien-ufos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19341

How about the 'Malmstrom UFO incident' from 1967.
A UFO was witnessed by soldiers hovering over the missile silo of a military nuclear facility in the US.
Whilst the UFO was hovering over the military silo-'eight' nuclear missilies suddenly went off line-each missile was also on a separate circuit.
We are constantly being told by the government that UFOs are 'of no defense significance'.
With regard to this incident the base commander at the time is on record as saying:
"If UFOs shutting down nuclear missiles on a US military facility is not a National Security incident,then I don't know what is" .

Details and declassified documents here:
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm
Cheers Karl

Thanks for the link. Nice read for sure. Everyone knows the government lies. Why would we think anything other than that, why should they be so scared to tell the public the truth? "If we tell them now that we lied the whole time they will never beleive us again?" Nah, we do not trust them anyways, that will never change and this is just one case that supports our reasons why (UFO/ETs).

I would be more concered for our defense and allow the public to offer any evidence and accounts to the sightings and the abductions so we can better understand what they want. As most have shown evidence of, they claim the government already knows what they want and why they do it. So the confusion still remains. :mad:

Puregrain thanks for the reply-I agree with your sentiments.
I suppose the main reason certain government agencies including the NSA,NORAD,FBI and the US Air force's OCC do not want to disclose to the public the knowlege they have gleaned about the UFO subject is because
'there is absolutley nothing in it for them'.
The above UFO event and many other highly credible, authenticated military UFO encouters are truly bizarre and debunker explanations are 'conspicuous by their absence'.
Cheers Karl

I'm interested in your thoughts Karl, on the implications of this case and how it may serve as a jumping off point in providing insight into discussions of the proof or evidence that so many seem to yearn for. The connections between UFO appearences and the military are long and varied but consistently seem to indicate a method to their "madness", so to speak.

It was interesting to hear Col. Charles Halt speak on Larry King last week, discussing the Bentwaters/Rendlesham case and indicating that some personnel involved with the case witnessed the object observed firing a beam of some sort into the bases Weapons Storage area....not something I had heard him confirm in the past.

At the time, the SALT Treaty (I&II) prohibited the storage of Nuclear Weapons at Rendlesham and yet here we see behavior witnessed by military personnel that has been oft repeated by UFOs (as found in other cases - the Kirtland AFB incident comes to mind, occurring at around the same time as Rendlesham), showing interest in our Nuclear proclivities and indicating an "MO" of sorts.

What might this modus operandi imply and why?

Considering the decade this took place in.
It may have been these visitors way of saying that they can shut down our means of self annihilation.

If you'd like to listen to the man that was present at the time of this incident, you might check Valiens blog for Podcast of his recent interview with him.

http://blog.valiens.com/2007/11/06/culture...bert-salas.aspx

I believe he is of the same mind S-D.

UFO sightings are


Earthguy thanks for your reply-its true that there is a suprising number of highly credible military incidents involving UFOs that still remain inexplicable.
There also exists a huge number of declassifed UFO documents that go a long way in showing the extreme seriousness with which certain government agencies take the subject.
John Greenewald Jr has done some great work in uncovering and collating various FOIA documents concerning UFOs (over 200,000 of them)and ,whilst many are vague and non commital ,some are very interesting and quite revealing:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...earch&plindex=5
In certain declassified documents,government scientists and academics state that UFOs are
'Actual unknown,intelligently controlled structured craft'
which,
'Display technologies far beyond that of man made devices'
There is also admittance that,
'The subject of UFOs and the subsequent findings of any investigations remain the highest security concern in the US government -Well Above Top Secret-two points higher than the Hydrogen Bomb project'

As for military encounters with UFOs there are several highly credible cases (including the Malmstrom incident at the beginning of this thread).
There is of course the Washington merry go round (which is a fascinating one):
http://www.nicap.org/wnsdir.htm

The Iranian fighter jet incident:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/tehraniran.html

The Belgium airspace incident:
http://ufologie.net/htm/belgium.htm

The Shag Harbor Incident:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/Shagharbor.html

This film is also an interesting one as it has the distinction of being the only UFO documentary film ever to be commissioned and funded by the US Government:
(Theres a particularly interesting section on the Washington merry-go-round at 22:20)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...earch&plindex=1

As for the many (authenticated) quotes made by various prominent,high ranking government/Defense/military/NASA/NORAD/NATO officials,perhaps one of the most illuminating is one made by NASA's top atmospheric physicists:

"UFO sightings are now so common,the military doesn't have time to worry about them....when a UFO appears they simply ignore it.Unconventional targets are ignored because apparently we are only interested in Russian targets-possible enemy targets.
Something that hovers in the air,then shoots off at 5000 mph doesn't interest us,because it can't be the enemy.UFOs are picked up by ground and air radar,they have been photographed by gun camera all along.There are so many UFOs in the sky that the Airforce has had to employ special radar networks to screen them out."

Lee Kitchen NASA Atmospheric physicist 1968

More can be seen at http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/QuotesPage.html

There is a great deal more of credible documentary/circumstantial evidence with regards to UFOs and the military (including some 'hard to refute' multiple radar evidence) but on the whole I think anyone who looks (impartialy and objectively) into the subject would conclude that the cynical armchair debunker mindset that
'UFOs are just a silly nonsense' is completely spurious,misinformed,wilfully ignorant and wrong.

As for the well documented accounts of UFOs showing interest in our nuclear facilities/military installations I can only speculate that they may be quite concerned with our technological advancements in the field of nuclear weapons.
In the last hundred years ,through successive wars ,we've killed over 100 million of our own kind -so I suspect they just regard us as 'homicidal little bald monkeys'.
The fact that we're playing with Plutonium can't be a comforting thought for them (if they exist that is).
Cheers Karl

Earthguy
With regard to 'military encounters with UFOs' these two presentations are very interesting and the speakers are quite well known for their 'objectivity and comprehensive research' in their respective fields.
If you've not seen the two films before, they contain a lot of suprising information and explore some very intruiging,well documented cases:
Bruce Maccabee:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...x+con+jim+marrs
Richard Dolan:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-19...q=richard+dolan
Cheers Karl

Karl,

I appreciate the effort you've put into the last couple of post here. You are well versed in the 'argument' so to speak and I hope you continue to contribute.

Dolan's "UFO's and the National Security State (Vol I)" is a must read and I'm looking forward to Vol II, which I understand is almost ready to publish. I also own a copy of the 50's film you mentioned, "Unidentified Flying Objects", featuring Capt. Ed Ruppelt, Maj Dewey Fournet and others discussing in depth the "merry go round" of 1952 over D.C. The testimony that the chase jets that closed in on the objects, only to have them leave the area (possibly infinite acceleration) and then return after the Jets had returned to base is a classic 'cat & mouse' tactic often displayed and is yet another example of the 'there's not much you can do about' aspect of many military encounters and one not often understood about this case. I noted that Shirley Maclaine (not the topic of this thread) mentioned on Larry King Live last week and on one of the morning programs here in the States, that this particular event had a profound lifelong influence on her interest in the subject.

Maccabees's research is well thought of, particularly his essay on case #10 of Bluebook's 'Special Report #14:The Rouge River Sighting, again witnessed by academics involved with the military research.

Are you familiar with the ONE (Office of National Estimates) group, a precursor to the CIA and the discovery of mention of this group in the FOIA docs recently released a few months back? Some speculate that although MJ-12 may or not have been reality, this group existed and was very much in the loop for many decades as the documents indicate. Another thread maybe...

Sounds like you've done your research Karl. Keep it up and stick around eh?

Earthguy thanks for the reply,I haven't read Richard Dolan's book yet (its on Santa's list) but I've heard its a very well put together piece of work-I've also read somewhere that many prominent politicians in Washington are aware of the book and have read/own copies. .
As for the Rod Serling film,its a very,interesting one and it's revealing that it was partly funded by the US government-maybe as a softener for the concept of disclosure.
If you've got an original copy it will be no doubt quite rare and worth a few pennies.
I've got a great deal of respect for Bruce Maccabee and appreciate the info about the 'Rouge river sighting'-will certainly look into that one.
Regarding MJ12 -I think theres a great deal of 'falsehood mixed in with truth' to claims about this group (just to muddy the water) and objective research can be a 'vertible quagmire' of deliberate misinformation,factual truth,heresay,speculation and conjecture.
I don't doubt the group exist(ed) but claims about this elusive bunch can be notoriously difficult to prove.
Your comments about the 'Office of National Estimates' do sound very interesting though and well worth looking into.
Thanks for the info (and the informed,balanced discussion).
Cheers Karl

Earthguy-Concerning the Rod Serling film,if you enjoy old school documentaries about the UFO subject (and have not seen it already) this 1970's film is a classic.
It features both (very young looking versions) of Stanton Friedman and Stephen Speilberg as they give their opinions on the UFO subject and it also contains a very interesting interview concerning antigravity research (towards the end of the film):
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...archh&plindex=0
Cheers Karl

BUMP

I am not sure if ya'll are talking about Rod Sterlings "UFO'S .. They're Here!, but I am 50 yrs old and I have the original and I have the one that was put out on dvd in 1997. In this dvd they discuss when the ufo's were seen over Washington during Trumans adminstration, the govt. decided to start an investigation that is still on going to this day . Also on the tape they discuss the evidence of the arrival. They combine lectures, Nasa films, and historical evidence like Stonehenge, crop circles, live stock mutilations, eye witness accounts. and the Monuments of Mars. It really makes you wonder if we really are alone. For myself, I have no doubt we are NOt alone and hope in my life time it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Cricket,thanks for the reply-the Rod Serling UFO documentary is a bit of an eyeopener and its coverage of the Washington merry-go-round incident is one of the best I've seen.
As for us not being alone in the universe-even just this galaxy is so incomprehensively,mindbogglingly vast that I think its pretty much guaranteed we are not alone,whether they have visited this planet is a different question but I think there is a growing number of inexplicable UFO incidents which points towards it.
Cheers Matey

The first part of this film deals with incidents at Malmstrom and other UFO incidents over U.S. Nuclear facilities and Military installations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCF4xyjSBY