I recently watched the monster quest episode about rods and they say they are nothing more than insects or blurs from a camera when taken in 2d so what are your thoughts on rods do you think they are from the 4th dimension?:headscrat :confused: :shrug:

dsm posts: "...what are your thoughts on rods...?"
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They are insects etc...
Here's a quiki from wiki to get ya started... ~rore

"Practically all sightings of rods are based on video evidence, due to the propensity of video cameras to produce characteristic stroboscopic artifacts when imaging rapidly flying animals, especially insects, but also including birds.
Their recent popularity seems to be a result of media exposure in television and in tabloids. Jose Escamilla has appeared in numerous interviews and television "investigations". More @

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_%28cryptozoology%29

There is no 4th dimension in this universe. It is fully and completely a three dimensional universe based on two directional points.

From what I have seen of these rods, they are a creature like any other, that reside in the up atmosphere. Their appearance is either a symptom of their present condition or a good way to stay aloft.

Apparently TIME is the 4th dimension...

“The fourth dimension is often identified with time in physics, and as such is used to explain the non-Euclidean space-time used in Einstein's theories of special relativity and general relativity.
When a reference is used to four-dimensional coordinates, it is likely that what is referred to is the three spatial dimensions plus a time-line. If 4 (or more) spatial dimensions are referred to, this should be stated at the outset, to avoid confusion with the more common notion that time is the Einsteinian fourth dimension.

If time is considered as the "fourth dimension", the additional fourth spatial dimension would be referred to as the fifth dimension. “ More @
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_dimension

From what little I understand, right now, there are 14 dimensions being addressed by physicists around the World.

Strange World we live in and most of us know so little about… ~rore

I am going to be a bit stuck up and say that anyone that believes time is the 4th dimension has no idea what time really is.

Time travel is not possible. Nor is any other derivative of a 4th dimensional theory. Time is not liner thus it is not a 4th dimension. Yet it gives things a liner existence.

Some of what perverts Physics is built on this misconception. There are simply laws at work that give this universe a dynamic quality. A simple refusal to acknowledge them has resulted in many wasted years and allot of wasted money. They are refused because they hint to basic misconceptions that challenge billions of dollars and ones own personal integrity. And in this department, people are often found wanting.

This statemant is advanced. It was taught to me by far geater men than I. "There is no 4th dimension in this universe. It is fully and completely a three dimensional universe based on two bidirectional points." (note: I added bi- because if I am going to state something exact, I might as well quote exactly as well) There are no other quialities or factors on which this universe is dependant. Every other rule, law or phenomenon is breakable and will yield if it in any way challenges this.

I heard someone pose the question how do you get across vast amounts of space in short amounts of time? Easy, synthisise a 4th time based dimension and hold on to your hat as this universe forces your creation out of existance. You can move gallaxies with it. You can shatter all light speed limitations. This universe has many things in it but they all yield to this simple unchallengable law.

However, if you lessen these laws in anyway, this universe will undo before your eyes. (it produces and interesting empty grayness, but you have to see it to believe it. If you do it with an object, you will get a load clap as air rushes in to fill the emptyness)

ScottM posts: I am going to be a bit stuck up and say that anyone that believes time is the 4th dimension has no idea what time really is.
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And I will stick with the notion that anyone who thinks they can dismiss time as a mere conception of the Human mind doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

Like I said; It’s a strange World and one which most of us know very little about.

Coming out and saying that I don’t know what time is because you don’t ‘believe’ in the modern interpretation/application of time is very arrogant imho…:)

And claiming there are only 3 dimensions in the Universe tells me that someone is completely disregarding what modern science is discovering. ~rore

I didn't say that. Last time I checked objects didn't go away because I forgot about them.



I am arrogant, it's true.



You should see the other side of this one if you think science is getting somewhere with this....

“Nobel laureate Richard Feynman wrote in 1972 of the three-dimensional Ising model that "the exact solution for three dimensions has not yet been found."

The above indicates that even your 3 dimensional take on reality is inconclusive so how can you state with absolute certanty that the Universe is comprised of only 3 dimensions to start with? Strange World hey? ~rore

I get what your saying, I once had the same (or similar) ideas. But no, there is nothing anywhere that violates it. The problem is not that there is something unworkable about it. It is that you can't see what law applies and the full panarama of effects it is capable of. They look like different laws.

Also, those simple words are not the end all to everything. They are like a 3D computer program. Just give it 3D coordinates and some relation laws and you can make anything you want. You can even freeze time. So I am not saying time is not real. I am saying it can not be placed up there with these laws. It is bendable but the laws are not. It is not that the words of the law are the law, they only describe them, and perhaps a bit too poorly at that.

Anyway, I can't blame you for not believing me. I would not either if I was in your shoes. But I did get a once in a lifetime chance to see some of these points proved. I got to see this stuff for myself, so I am overly verbal about it in ways that seem impossible or the act of an insane man.

Like a peace of art work made by somebody else and misunderstood this universe is being viewed wrong by science. But how does one peal away the layers of paint and zillions of colors and find the canvus it is painted on?

I think you are speaking about spatial dimensions ScottM, as in the three conventional spatial dimensions: length (or depth), width, and height.

But there is also a fourth dimension attributed to this concept .
“The fourth dimension is therefore the direction in space that is at right angles to these three observable directions.”

“The fourth spatial dimension can be thought of in terms of vectors, analogous to arrows, fixed from some single place in space which we call the origin, that point to other places. These are called geometric vectors.” ~rore

Time, as a fixed element of existence, is simply movement through space. It is intrinsic to existence because without movement...the 3Ds collapse..space collapses...and existence ceases. Which is why we speak of 'space-time'. Linear time is not a fixed element of existence but rather a point's perception of another point's movement through space in relation to itself or other points...it must proceed outward (be linear) because a point, being singular, can not exist in all points in space simultaneously...point A could not perceive point B in relation to itself from point B's perspective. Again, should a point be able to exist in at all points in space simultaneously then space itself would collapse because movement (time) would cease. Existence would not be possible.

That only proves that having a time like quality would be important. I would never seek to deny that.

Time is a powerful factor and with this universe in it's current state could not function without it. So we have established that.

We know this universe can not function without the quality of time. So too can we see that "now" exists. We can not see that "future" or "past" exists. Such is the nature of this universe. We can see that past events have had influence and their effects are still present. But if we didn't have a record, some present indication or effect (here and now) then there would be no way to judge a past event. Likewise for any future event.

It is almost stupid, it is so common that you would not stop to think with the fact that the only thing we can prove is the present. If I write a note and come back the next day there should be a written note here in the present. That is proof of a past event. The only way we can know a past event occurred is to use the present universe and deduce from it's present state what the past contained.

This is so well ingrained into you that you MUST keep a record in your mind of what happened to you or you will have nothing with regard to any past events. There is nothing anywhere that works on past or future events, only present events.

Nothing else can be proven. We JUST ASUME that there is a past, or future. It SURE LOOKS LIKE IT! I never denied that time exists. I never denided this universe sure looks like a 4th dimention exsits, you may look all you want. But time is not the 4th dimention, because, there is nothing before us, and nothing behindus. What we infact have is a formula of PREDICTION, and a RECORD of events, and the present universe.

We can think with future events and past events, but we only have the present universe. So you see, there is no 4th dimention, there are three, there is a quality called time. but time will yield if it oversteps the the three. That is all that exists, three + qualities each thing has.

“The fourth spatial dimension can be thought of in terms of vectors, analogous to arrows, fixed from some single place in space which we call the origin, that point to other places. These are called geometric vectors.” ~rore

Your right and wrong as the forth is not a dimention, but it is a dynamic quality. But time will not stand up to anything more then a dynamic quality of the three dimentions. You could call this dynamic quality "Change" if it helps to make it simpler. The three dimentions have a quality called "Change". As soon as you try to make anything more out of it, this universe revokes the effort. It will only "change" to reconsile the difference you are creating.

You seem to be fixated on linear time. I am speaking of an intrinsic part of the substrate of existence. ALL of existence. Actuality not reality. I suggest a review in the disciplines of ontology and theoretical physics.

SM posts: Your right and wrong as the forth is not a dimention, it is just made of qualities of now.
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You are getting into a philosophical debate here SM.

Neither philosophy nor physics has the ‘proven’ correct answer to the question: Is time a fourth dimension?

There are no arguments one way or the other to prove the notion one way or another.

That’s a fact… Kind of lol ~rore

Wow, tough crowd. Oh well, I tried.

iwant2believe2-

Yes, I will have to keep going at that. Make sure I am up to date. I know I have fallen behind.
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rore-

Yes, it seems I am getting into a field of theory on witch experts abound. And this is a quick route to the wolves den in this day and age. I don't have as many certificates as they do. So I guess I can't win.

I guess nobody wins. :shrug:

I don't mean to be too sour about it. Perhaps i will one day see one of these theories and go "that is a good point!". And then you can relax [phew]

Perhaps you will.

Anyway, I (believe it or not) don't know much of anything about "rods". I have seen NASA footage that clearly showed what it was. I am not about to call it hoax or flying lint.

What I saw looked like a worm that slowly rotated and bent itself back and worth in an unnatural way. It was white in the shot I saw and looked a bit transparent. By worm I mean that it looked to be round and long. Also, it looked to made of sections linked together thus making it long much like a normal Earth worm. It never bend but at a certin place at one end, it was mostly sraight the entire time I saw it. But at one end it would bend back and forth.

I can't guess it's size but it must have been big, it was a long way from the camera but was still quite clear.

Saw that too. They pretty much proved rods were just caused by insects and such in the camera. So I think the answer to those is much simpler than crossing dimensions and such.

This post has been edited by Mymeo: Jun 28 2008, 09:39 PM