hello to all
are the govts of the world planning a mass cull of our species.we cannot continue to multiply and the rate we do know before resources,arable land and accomodation become a serious problem. i think that a future plan to control numbers is already in motion.massive underground bases,secret prisons,storage of seeds,dna......why?

Welcome, McDaddy.

A mass cull would be against the economic interests of the government. From an economic standpoint alone, they wouldn't do. They need us.

In response to your evidence: There are no massive underground bases. There ARE, however, massive underground storage facilities and shelters for use in case of nuclear war. It's been policy since the 50s.

There are secret prisons, but they are not for us. They're for immigrants and the 'war on terror'. The US will not lock up vast numbers of its own citizens (though it might lock up a few 'dangerous' individuals). There is no plan to put us all in camps. Let's get that straight. Follow that line of thought to its logical conclusion, and its logic collapses.

Storage of seeds is against ecological pandemics. Movement towards a global centralized seedbank containing seeds from all countries has been moving forward since the Taliban destroyed the Afghan seedbank. All countries have seedbanks and it has nothing to do with any conspiracy. It's for our own protection, a kind of Noah's Ark in case of disaster.

I do not like some of the things our government is doing but frankly a mass cull of the population is sci-fi ridiculousness.

We are already too many. Especially when you consider the way we live as a people.

Any effort to lower the population growth will be very harmful to us.

I know it can be hard on us to let the population just grow unchecked. At this time the technology we have was created in a world where resources seamed to never end. Why would it hurt to level off the population growth until technology catches up to us? The answer is that people do not server technology, technology serves people.

Try to imagine a far greater civilization. We need people for it, allot more people. If our ancestors had cut our numbers we would not have modern day. We have risen quickly in only a few short years in no small part to the population numbers. If we start cutting into our numbers now we will stunt our growth. In case you have not noticed, people are not the most stable and sane life forms on this planet.

Nothing ever stays the same. With people being so volatile, humanity is forcing it's success by growth alone. An infrastructure is working it's way into place as we grow. The seeds of stability are taking root. This civilization as it is today would have fallen apart if it were not for the freedom to grow and stability setting in. That freedom has lead to fundamental changes that are taking root under man securing humanities future.

There is allot to be said about how humanity abused Earth. But one of the fastest growing monetary fields is "green" technology. Popular Science just had a story on that: http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/...ess-goes-global Don't lose faith in man now.

We do not have room for a much larger population at this time. But if you look closely, you will see that we didn't have room for our modern world only a short time ago. Some people rushed ahead and made room. That is the very thing that will continue to happen. Lack of brains can be compensated for by sheer numbers and communication.

I realize I say allot of crazy things about man's history that counters the accepted history in stark ways. It however should not be hard to see that mankind has been adjusting and his growth has always been pushing the limit of how many people could be kept alive. At every turn where this was not the case, cases where population caps where put in place, this growth and prosperity leveled off. The harder the brakes applied to growth were, the less you want to know about just how barbaric it got for those people. The ones that really enforced those population limitations are gone. Everyone of them removed by force if necessary. The ones that halted their numbers either died within a few generations or are still sharpening stones for use as weapons. This is what it means cull our life line.

There is a reason for this. It is woven into you more then you could ever know. It is so great that it is the only indication (apart form wide disasters that could wipe out humanity) you need to know if man will survive.

If any government begins a culling, you need to get out of that country as fast as you possibly can. Because they will suffer and die at a rate you would not believe until they wipe themselves from the face of the Earth. Nazi Germany is the perfect example. We hate their very name to this day and that is all they will ever be know for. They lasted only a few short years yet it hurt the world deeply.

Under it all is a reason. But there is no need to get into that. It is enough to say that we need this growth as badly as we need life itself.

Excellent post, Scottman.

I would also like to point out that without advances in our technology, our population would have outgrown available resources a long time ago. Advances in technology allow us get greater efficiency from agriculture and natural resources.

Some examples:
Agriculture: organized agriculture vs. gathering, automation (plows, cotton gins, harvesters), pest control, crop rotation, GM foods (stronger, grow faster, more resistant to disease and pests, and grow in harsher environments: we're even studying how to modify crops to be grown in extremely arid parts of Africa), and more is on the way.

Metals: advances in mining and leaching have increased the efficiency of the amount of metal we can pull out of the ground. New technologies are allowing us to go back to old mines and get trace ores that technology didn't allow us to get before.

fossil fuels: advances allow us greater efficiency in use, but also give us the technology to access fuels we couldn't access before. In the future, our technologies may allow us to harvest fossil fuels from other planets in our solar system and even quit fossil fuels altogether.

So, as you can see, although it appears we are reaching the limits of population that the planet can sustain, technology offers us the ability to reset those parameters. Look through history and you'll see I'm right.

I agree with Soul D! It's not a matter of capacity, or of our own ability to maintain our society or planet. It's a simple matter of our total lack of maturity as a race, and our total inability to get along with one another. Too many of us are too close to each other, and that, by it's very nature, causes trouble. We fight over resources, or over land, over insipid crap because it's never enough for us. THere's just not enough stuff for everyone here on earth to satisfy our primal hungers. And we are so immature we don't share with our brethren, we hoard, which just makes the whole thing worse.

We are already beyond what should be a good population limit for this place. Too many people, not enough food or jobs to keep us all in good health and comfort.

I would have to take issue with the idea that technology has saved people in the past, that they grew past what was once thought possible by inventing new technologies.

Until VERY recently, population growth was very very slow. It took literally thousands of years to reach a billion people. Now it takes a generation and a half to add a billion.

Population growth started to pick up in response to technological improvements, and those improvements have led a very rapid population growth unprecedented in human history. Improved health care in particular has great ability to lengthen lives and lower infant mortality rates, but gowing
more food is much more difficult. Food yields have grown but do not, can not keep pace.

The idea that technology advances will only be made if we continue to build up population is demonstratably false. Technology jumps today are made in Europe, Japan and the US.. with the exception of the US those areas have falling populations or stable populations. The US has population growth only through immigration. Technology builds on technology and whether there are starving masses in Africa or not there is no reason to believe that technology growth would slow in the industrialized world.

Scottman asserts that countries that try to control their population growth suffer serious consequences. China has a "1 child policy"..and has had one during their rise to economic power. And that is the policy that countries will use if they decide to "cull" their populations. They wont go out and simply kill people. They will reduce population with birth limits.

On the contrary, history actually is full of cultures that let their populations boom during the good times.. but whose resources could not sustain them when those ideal conditions ended. The Easter Island people used up all their trees.. someone actually cut down the last train..And I wonder if that person was thinking "well..we will just find a substitute"..but they didnt. The Anasazi culture grew and grew..during what we now know was a wetter time than usual in North America. Once rain levels returned to normal..too many people. They didnt find any technological answers either and their culture disappeared.

We live on a planet with limits. Limited resources. Limited oil, water, metals, etc. No other animal on this planet of our average weight even approaches the numbers we have. To think we can just keep growing on forever..well.. its wishful thinking.

The only resource that I'd say we might not run out of is water, why? Because we are figuring out ways to filter water. We also are learning to recycle.

Eventually we will have to move off Earth, colonize other planets. Even if we stop expanding this fast, we might not need to then, but we will anyways. Look at Europe. The whole place is packed full of people. Why? It's older than the western world.

I can go miles without seeing a house here in the west, in the right places, you go fifty feet and your always at someones house our business.

But if we go to another planet, and colonize it and make it so we can live there, Earth will still keep getting a growing population. There are people that would rather die than leave Earth, so they'd stay anyways. Then eventually all of Earth might become like a city, and the colonized planets like the western world.

I believe that man will live for many more generations, because we keep finding ways to expand to other places, finding ways to go to new places, finding new places. In the next century they hope to have man living on the moon. Heck, someday we'll probably have people living on Mars.

Good point Mr. E!

Also, we may have to eat cloned foods. However, I would not want to live on Mars. There may be a reason why it's in the shape it is now. I believe it may be in a target zone for asteroids. There seems to have been a few close calls lately and the two moons, Deimos and Phobos, were asteroids that got drag into its orbit. Until we have better defenses against asteroids, I'll take my chances on Earth. I will visit though.

i think the population problem will get worse before we explore civilisations on mars.the breakdown of society due to lack of oil and water.government imposes world wide martial law(NWO)in order to restore order.Any nation oposing this new order or threaten it will attacked ie;iraq,afghanistan,iran.

Very good post, Vet. What you say is true. we are on a treadmill, racing as fast as we can to keep from falling off. Technology (for the purposes of this analogy) allows us to run faster to keep up, but every time we speed up, so does the treadmill.

I still believe that technology has allowed us to be more efficient with out resources, that technology has allowed us to expand beyond what we thought were the limits of our resources. I believe technology has the potential to continue this trend. In other words, I do believe that technology can continue to allow us to expand beyond what we believe are the limits of our resources.

However, you bring up a VERY valid point: technology almost always fails. Whether it's the fall of civilization, or simply a hiccup in technology wherein we fail to solve our problems quickly enough (and so fall down on the treadmill). It's a frightening thought.

I agree with you Kirin.. basically technology buys us time.. but thats all. How we use the time will be important.

I hate to say it because I really enjoy my lifestyle now..but current first world lifestyles probably arent sustainable indefinately. The average person in the US, Japan, Europe etc consumes so much everyday that is irreplaceable I just cringe. Now India will produce a 2,000 dollar car.. so everyone in India will be driving.. China will not be far behind. What will it mean to the world when another 2 billion people are living this way?

And here is the thing.. the Green Revolution boosted production of food.. and there may be a round 2 of that with GM if scientists do a better job of educating the public about what GM really means (DNA is a digital code in essence.. the code doesnt know where it it..). But for the moment, despite our technology world food production is now decreasing and prices increasing and first world countries thinking that biofuel somehow helps makes it worse..

Better stop here.. this thread can actually get me easily going into a whirlwind of negativity and pessimism.. and I dont want to be in that mode today!

Don't worry Vet, I have enough pessimism for everyone today. I'll carry that load.

There's just too many damn people on this planet and you all know it! Stop trying to justify it. It just true.

Try living in NYC your whole life and I am sure you will agree.

Macdaddy, I don't think anyone can be too sure what the government has going on until it happens. Although I have my own opinion on this matter, I don't think it's fair for anyone to make matter of fact claims to issues that can not be known for certain, b/c the big picture of what will happen is too large to be known for sure by anyone of us.

Anytime a species overpopulates and gets too many, something will always happen to balance things out. We are no exception to that. We just have the ability to prolong it.
Population growth, must be slowed soon.

ok...

i still have a horrible feeling that somthing is unfolding for us and none of it good at leats in the short term.every civilisation so far has had its day, i.m not talking stone age,bronze age etc.but the mayans,inca's,egyptians with thier immense knowledge and technologies couldn't prevent there disappearance.so lets suppose we won't have an armegeddon,like a comet or nuclear war,drastic climate change.the population grows,lack of space,food,clean water and resouces becomes an issue.so the solution is prevention or slowing of the causes,sustainable numbers.i believe we are already past that point.there are more people on this planet now, than there has been people on it since the beginning of recored history.

what do you do to reduce numbers,china had the one child rule,it is still the most populated nation.


other options and most likely-disease,aids,bird flu,mrsa,malaria. war-thermo -nuclear not likely,but number of small more conventional ones.keep an eye on the news.africa has seen the biggest drop in poulation since the holocuast.

You fear what you don't understand. If you knew what had killed off the Egyptians, Romans, Incas, Mayans and has already killed the walking dead country called China, then you would know this civilization still has a chance.

The biggest error you could make is to fear that some over powering factor that you can not understand did it. When the truth is, yea it was over powering, but it was not something you can not understand.

Have you ever seen someone do something so bad it got you mad? That you felt you may even like to do something to them? Imagine a civilization made up of people that felt that way toward their own government.

Egypt kept slaves, killed their own babies in an effort to control population. The kingdom you know of as Egypt fell a number of times. You can imagine how the slaves and parents felt.

Mayans were taken down mainly by the Spanish, but I can assure you the locals, after over a thousand years of forced sacrifice, slavery and other factors did not lift a had to help them. It was all that sacrifice and slavery that inspired the Spanish to do what the locals had been wanting to do for so long.

Rome is the same. Slaves, a justice system designed to protect the powerful and let 95% of her population be victimized without protection.

Rest assured, people stood and cheered as these civilizations fell.

When you hear that justice is not being served, when you see the IRS taking your money or else putting you in jail, "Police action" that holds down a civilization, Laws that take away your rights and serve to strip you of your ability to do well, these are the factors (apart from an Earth killing asteroid or something like that) that make a people not want the government they have. This is the number one killer of civilizations. It is that the people in a civilization no longer want it.

This is not the only factor, but it the key ingredient that sounded the death toll. It is the rot that removed the foundations for anything or anyone that came along and was willing to remove them from the face of the Earth. You can't have a civilization without a civilization that wants it too.

Im sorry Scottman but Im going to have to correct you on some things.

They Ancient Egyptians had several different dynasties, but that was simply changing those in charge of a long lasting empire. Although there were slaves, slave labor was a minor part of the economy and not part of the reason of the decline of ancient Egyptian civiliation.

The Mayans were not "done in" by the the Spanish. High Mayan culture disappeared several hundred years before Columbus's "discovery" of America.

Rome was not as egalitarian as modern Western society, but there was no cheering when it fell nor should there have been. "Gladiator" had this much right: Rome was the light in the Western world. Once Rome fell (due to a number of factors including the ongoing struggle at that time between sedentary and non-sedentary civilizations) it would be hundreds of years before people any where in Europe had things that Rome had such as good roads, public sanitation, running water, comparitively high literacy rate, etc.

Lack of liberty is most assuredly not the reason for civilizations to fall. Liberty in the sense youre using it is a fairly new concept, in the past existing in only a handful of situations. Despite the examples you give, people in western style democracies are FAR more free today than people inside "civilizations" ever had. The right to marry whom one wants, to choose ones own profession, etc.. these most basic rights have often not been respected.

And I saved the best for last. "The walking dead nation" China? Are you joking? Have you been there at all in the past 10 years? China is the most dynamic place I have been to. The society, the economy, the people, everything is moving and changing extremely quickly. I have no idea what would drive someone to say that Chinese civilization, by all appearances experiencing a resurgance, is "dead".

Brilliant post, Vet.

:applause:

I totally agree with everything you just said.