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Mar 9 2008, 08:16 PM
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![]() Master of the Universe ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 1,307 Joined: 9-April 06 Member No.: 3,969 |
The famous case of Betty and Barney Hill was a first for the UFO phenomenon for many reasons. Although it wasn't the first reported abduction, it was the first to be formally investigated and also marked the entrance of hypnosis into UFOlogy. It wasn't however the first mysterious happening in New Hampshire. In the south there is Mystery Hill near North Salem, commonly referred to as 'America's Stonehenge', to the east is Ossipee Lake, a sacred Indian site and the location of a mass grave which contained a staggering ten thousands bodies arranged in concentric circles. UFOs have also been reported in Exeter and interestingly USOs (Unidentified Submersible Objects) have been seen plunging into the 'bottomless' volcanic lakes that surround the area.
![]() They were on their return journey back home on the night of September 19, travelling down Highway 3 through the mountains near Lancaster. Just after 10 o'clock, Barney noticed a light in the sky just below the moon and alerted his wife to it. Their first thought was that it was a planet, but the fact that it was moving changed their minds. Barney's feelings of agitation, that would stay with him, now started, he denied any theories about UFOs brought up by Betty, who's sister Janet had seen a UFO, and tried to convince himself that they were watching a plane of a satellite. They stopped the car for the dog and Barney also got out of the car to get his .22 pistol from the trunk and look at the object through his binoculars. They continued on towards North Woodstock and they became worried that the light was following them because there was no other traffic on the road. It was now clear that the object was not anything conventional because it was performing a strange manoeuvre of travelling quickly west and then coming back east, getting closer to the Hills' automobile and growing in size. They stopped again at Indian Head, the object was much closer now, at around 100 feet away, and through the binoculars Barney could see multiple rows of windows and multi-coloured lights on the huge disk shaped object. He could see a number of figures through the windows and he picked out one that he though seemed to be the leader. Barney is reported to have been muttering 'I don't believe it, I don't believe it, this is ridiculous!' at what he was observing. As the craft moved closer Barney panicked and exclaimed 'They are going to capture us!' before running back to Betty and the car and speeding away from the area. They lost sight of the object, there were trees around them but they were sure it was directly overhead. They heard a beeping noise, coming from behind them and felt a tingling feeling before becoming very drowsy. The next thing they remembered was being thirty-five miles south of Indian Head in Ashland, 2 hours later. It was at most a 30-minute drive from Indian Head to Ashland but somehow, it had taken the Hills 90 minutes longer than this and they had no knowledge of what happened. The next day, after an unusually long sleep, Betty called Janet to talk about her experience. Janet urged Betty to report her sighting to nearby Pease AFB. Barney still didn't share his wife's enthusiasm for UFOs and protested at the idea but Betty went ahead and spoke to Major Paul W. Henderson of the 100th Bomb Wing, Barney also reluctantly gave his side of the story over to the air force. The radar at the base corroborated the Hills' experience but for unknown reasons Report No. 100-1-61 just reads: 'a strange incident occurred at 0214 local on 20 Sept. No important was attached to the incident at the time. Barney noticed unexplained blotches on the paintwork of his car and marks on his shoes along with a stiff neck. Very interestingly, the 509th Bomb Wing, although uninvolved in the Hill's case were then stationed at Pease AFB in 1961. In 1947, when the famous 'Roswell Incident' took place the home of the 509th was Roswell AAFB. After the event, Betty's obsession with UFOs grew as Barney just tried to forget about the whole thing. Betty read a copy of Major Donald Kehoe's 'The Flying Saucer Conspiracy', which she found in her local library. You may know Major Kehoe from his involvement in NICAP (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon). After writing a letter to Kehoe, Betty suffered from a series of horrible nightmares, seemingly about her experience. A friend told her to write down the dreams so she could remember them later, Betty wrote of her and Barney being stopped at a roadblock before being led into a disk-shaped craft to be examined. Her letter eventually ended up in the hands of Hayden Planetarium, Boston lecturer Walter Webb who was a science advisor for NICAP. He made the journey up to New Hampshire and after a long interview wrote an in depth report about the Hills, seemingly convinced they were genuine. Robert Hohman and C. D. Jackson both knew Kehoe and had read what Webb had written about the Hills. One of these men was responsible for noticing the missing time, he calculated the distance and even allowed time for a stop but still concluded that the Hills were two hours late. This interview, thanks to the presence Major James MacDonald, a friend of the Hills, led to the suggestion of hypnosis to further the research. After Barney saw two doctors about his continuing stress, the second, psychiatrist Dr. Stephens of Exeter, having learnt about the Hills' experience also recommended hypnosis and referred Barney to the reputable Dr. Benjamin Simon in Boston. Dr. Simon believed that the Hills were suffering from anxiety syndrome stemming from their sighting and after six months of sessions a story remarkably similar to Betty's dreams began to emerge from both of the Hills, even though they were never present at each others appointments. There were extra details about medical examinations including hair and skin samples being taken from Betty and her being shown a map of the stars showing the home of the aliens, Zeta Reticuli, relative to our own Sun. The media took an interest in the hills story and John G. Fuller wrote 'The Interrupted Journey', Look Magazine had a large feature and there was the made-for-TV movie, 'The UFO Incident' with Estelle Parsons and James Earl Jones. ![]() The map of the stars, which Betty managed to diagram under hypnotic suggestion, was studied in 1974 by an Ohio schoolteacher who was also an amateur astronomer named Marjorie Fish. Ms. Fish spent five years looking for a match to the stars Betty Hill described. The match she found was subsequently challenged by astrophysicist Carl Sagan, he used a sophisticated computer program to compare the star systems and found only a vague connection. Martin S. Kottmeyer, a skeptic, related the Hills' story to the 1953 movie, 'Invaders from Mars' and other science fiction, including an episode of 'Outer Limits' shown less than two weeks before one of Barney's hypnosis appointments. Investigator Karl Pflock argues that the Hills were not science fiction fans and had not seen the above so no influence can have come from those sources. Kehoe's literature could also have been an influencing factor but Betty and Barney were unaware of this book when they reported their sighting to the air force. Dr. Simon, in order to keep his reputation could not admit to believing the Hills, it should have been his job to find a scientific explanation for their illness. He pointed out that people don't always tell the truth under hypnosis, they tell what they think is the truth. He claimed that the Hills suffered amnesia and that Betty's dreams simply filled the missing time in her mind and also sub-consciously affected Barney when she told him about them. What caused the amnesia, however, remains a mystery. -------------------- ![]() |
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Mar 9 2008, 08:16 PM
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Apr 8 2008, 08:54 AM
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#2
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![]() ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 3,513 Joined: 10-July 06 From: Wild Rose, Wisconsin Member No.: 4,643 |
I read the book 'The Interrupted Journey". A great book.
I have always believed this abduction case to be a genuine one. |
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Apr 8 2008, 08:30 PM
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,859 Joined: 17-May 04 Member No.: 668 |
I read the book 'The Interrupted Journey". A great book. I have always believed this abduction case to be a genuine one. My mum stumbled onto a 1980's book from Readers Digest and it has 158 pages of this case from the original reporter, it also has the entire regression tapes and the dr states that it is almost impossible for two people to make up the same story after being hypnotised fro 6 consequtive months without either hearing the others testimony while under. You cannot have two people describing while under, the exact event. You would forget it after all these hypnotherapy sessions. That to me seems to be the crucial point of this case and if they are lying, which they obviously are not. One day when I have time I will type out the book. People have tried to make them out as complete nutters such as Klauss but I don't buy into that. Interesting cast one of many in the same vein. |
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Apr 9 2008, 05:29 AM
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#4
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![]() Group: Supporters Posts: 743 Joined: 28-March 07 Member No.: 5,647 |
I'm not saying this is a fake, but you can have two people describing the same thing while under hypnosis. This can be possible when the hypnotist unknowingly or knowingly asks questions in such a way as to suggest things. This has happened many times. I recently saw a program about it, but cannot recall the name.
-------------------- -senhuan the duck
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. |
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Apr 9 2008, 06:27 AM
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#5
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 21-February 08 Member No.: 7,232 |
The case of Barney and Betty Hill , according to my opinion is one of the few authentic cases of abductions . ................... in fact Betty knew about the existence of Zeta Reticuli a lot of time before this planet was discovered.
-------------------- ![]() Hi, I am Italian, if not you understand my English tell me him. |
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Apr 9 2008, 06:37 AM
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#6
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 21-February 08 Member No.: 7,232 |
I read the book 'The Interrupted Journey". A great book. I have always believed this abduction case to be a genuine one. Have you read Communion? If you have read it , what do you think of it? -------------------- ![]() Hi, I am Italian, if not you understand my English tell me him. |
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Apr 9 2008, 07:43 AM
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#7
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![]() Group: Supporters Posts: 743 Joined: 28-March 07 Member No.: 5,647 |
The case of Barney and Betty Hill , according to my opinion is one of the few authentic cases of abductions . ................... in fact Betty knew about the existence of Zeta Reticuli a lot of time before this planet was discovered. No planet around ZR was ever discovered. Furthermore, they are saying that earth-like planets are less likely to develop around ZR because of the nature of the stars. Again, not saying that this is a fake abduction. Just getting my facts straight. And it is an interesting story. This post has been edited by senhuan: Apr 9 2008, 08:09 AM -------------------- -senhuan the duck
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. |
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Apr 9 2008, 03:25 PM
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#8
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Registered User Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 21-February 08 Member No.: 7,232 |
No planet around ZR was ever discovered. Furthermore, they are saying that earth-like planets are less likely to develop around ZR because of the nature of the stars. Again, not saying that this is a fake abduction. Just getting my facts straight. And it is an interesting story. You are right it is a stellar system....... excuse but for me to write in English is not easy. However Betty Hill has declared that the system was binary years before the scientific discovery. -------------------- ![]() Hi, I am Italian, if not you understand my English tell me him. |
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Apr 9 2008, 04:02 PM
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 724 Joined: 9-November 06 Member No.: 5,061 |
I belive they are telling the truth.
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Apr 9 2008, 11:33 PM
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,859 Joined: 17-May 04 Member No.: 668 |
I'm not saying this is a fake, but you can have two people describing the same thing while under hypnosis. This can be possible when the hypnotist unknowingly or knowingly asks questions in such a way as to suggest things. This has happened many times. I recently saw a program about it, but cannot recall the name. Sorry not this time....the Dr did no task any leading questions at all...because at first he wasn't treating them for an abduction case and didn't know that. He was hypnotising them for the trauma they both seemed be going through. Barney didn't want to go. You cannot have two people who do not know what the other had said being hypnotised for 6 months and relating the EXACT same stories for 6 months. Sorry it is just rare and not common. The Dr at first thought that maybe there were sharing minds. I have the book in front of me and am typing from it. The reporter from Look magazine: In Dr Simons office I leafed through a transcript of one of the regressive hypnosis tapes. There was a stack of them as thick as a dictionary on his desk. Then I asked, "How can you possibly account for this story?" There are many things to consider," Dr Simon said. "remember that I was treating them professionally for one specific purpose: to relieve their anxiety symptons and their amnesia (dr Simon was used for returning servicemen and treated the hills for a similar condition) "But what about the UFO and the purported abduction?" I asked. That is entirely out of my area. Do you believe UFOs could exist?" I asked. " I believe anything exists if I see hard, palpable evidence." "Do you see that here?" "I can only say this," the doctor replied."It is very difficult to lie under carefully administered hypnosis. Especially six months of it. Therefore Im convinced the Hills were not lying. Second, after careful examination of the tapes I'm convinced there were not hallucinating. Third, there is no evidence of psychosis, or a rare condition known as folie a' deux, where two people can create psychosis between themselves. I was puzzled. "But if they're not lying, not psychotic and not hallucinating-does that mean it actually happened? "All i can say," said Dr Simon, " is that I'm a scientists. That's as a far as I can go. A bit of background on Dr Simon and the hills For two years the Hills tried to reconstruct what happened in those missing hours. They developed serious anxiety symptoms as a result of their inexplicable twin amnesia. A psychiatrist diagnosed their mutual problem as traumatic anxiety from their experience, and from their amnesia. The only specific treatment for amnesia is skilled regression by sodium amorbarbital, sodium pentothal, or regressive hypnosis to break down the threshold that bars the memories from reaching consciousness. The Hills were referred to Dr Simon, a leading specialist in this form of therapy. Because of his world war 2 experience, the Boston physician was well practiced in dealing with amnesia among soldiers whose battle experiences had left them unable to function. Through regression hypnosis, Simon had enabled them to relive, often painfully, their experiences so that their amnesia was gone, their anxiety lifted and their health restored. This does not sound like a man who would lead someone, the person would lead him..once he started. The Dr and the tapes prove that he did not lead them at all |
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Apr 10 2008, 11:55 AM
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,038 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Gulf Coast Member No.: 4,863 |
Simon's integrity is not in question here imho...
“Betty and Barney Hill were an American married couple who rose to fame after they claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials on September 19-20, 1961.” However, Simon's hypnosis didn’t get involved until: “Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964.” That’s over two years of B&B Hill reinforcing their experience with one another prior to Simon's involvement. Plenty of time for the Hills to have generated a myth amongst themselves to the point that even a skilled analyst would have trouble debunking… Simon said: “"It is very difficult to lie under carefully administered hypnosis. Especially six months of it.” The Hills wouldn’t be lying if they themselves utterly believed in the experience/myth they both believed they shared… Carl Sagan explained quite well the ’star map’ produced by Betty Hill… ~rore This post has been edited by rorechof: Apr 10 2008, 12:01 PM -------------------- Peace&Love~rore
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Apr 11 2008, 06:29 AM
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#12
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![]() ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 3,513 Joined: 10-July 06 From: Wild Rose, Wisconsin Member No.: 4,643 |
Simon's integrity is not in question here imho... “Betty and Barney Hill were an American married couple who rose to fame after they claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials on September 19-20, 1961.” However, Simon's hypnosis didn’t get involved until: “Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964.” That’s over two years of B&B Hill reinforcing their experience with one another prior to Simon's involvement. Plenty of time for the Hills to have generated a myth amongst themselves to the point that even a skilled analyst would have trouble debunking… Simon said: “"It is very difficult to lie under carefully administered hypnosis. Especially six months of it.” The Hills wouldn’t be lying if they themselves utterly believed in the experience/myth they both believed they shared… Carl Sagan explained quite well the ’star map’ produced by Betty Hill… ~rore Do you believe, it is just a myth, conjured up by the two?? If so, why? |
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Apr 11 2008, 10:41 AM
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#13
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,038 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Gulf Coast Member No.: 4,863 |
SD posts: Do you believe, it is just a myth, conjured up by the two??
If so, why? ====================== Betty literally developed the whole abduction scenario via writing down her dreams (nightmares?) starting about a month after the traumatic incident (alleged abduction). She continued writing out her dreams over the course of several months until she had a complete picture of what she believes really happened to them that night. In other words: Betty’s account of her experience that night comes from a story she put together from her dreams. Her abduction story is based on her own ‘dreams‘… I have witnessed, first-hand, the phenom called ‘Transference’ and there is no doubt in my mind transference is a real phenom. That said, it would not surprise me that after months of Betty telling Barney what ‘really happened that night’, Barney came to ’feel’, accept and ‘believe’ Betty’s dream account as ‘reality’. Transference. After a couple of years of them reinforcing this ‘dream account’ between themselves, I am again not surprised that, while under hypnosis, their stories remain ’in-synch’. What really happened that night I do not know and I don’t think the Hills really know/remember either. It’s obvious to me something did happen and, whatever it was, ’it’ spurred Betty to get seriously messed up in the head and it definitely affected Barney too. I could throw out a dozen different scenarios as to what may have taken place that night. I won’t, but I will say I think something traumatic happened to them during the ride back from their vacation. Or maybe something traumatic happened to them while on vacation and it was during the ride home the enormity of the trauma overwhelmed them both at the same time, at which point they both suffered a break from reality (missing memories) and their psyche desperately sought to make sense out of the traumatic experience in a way that did not bring up the real memories of the actual traumatic event but rather, found an acceptable substitute for what really happened. 1961 was not a good year for a black man to be legally married to a white woman in the USA… “The Hills were also members of the NAACP and community leaders, and Barney sat on a local board of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission.” Were they targets/victims of Racists/Segregationists? ~rore This post has been edited by rorechof: Apr 11 2008, 10:45 AM -------------------- Peace&Love~rore
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Apr 11 2008, 06:17 PM
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#14
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![]() ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 3,513 Joined: 10-July 06 From: Wild Rose, Wisconsin Member No.: 4,643 |
Have you read the book on the entire story Rore?
I understand what you are saying and those very things if I recall correctly, were addressed. All said I feel their experience was a genuine one. The trunk of their car had unusual circles in the enamel. So there was some physical evidence that Barney reported, but he never had it looked at. Dunno if it would have amounted to anything. |
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Apr 11 2008, 09:22 PM
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#15
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,859 Joined: 17-May 04 Member No.: 668 |
Simon's integrity is not in question here imho... “Betty and Barney Hill were an American married couple who rose to fame after they claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials on September 19-20, 1961.” However, Simon's hypnosis didn’t get involved until: “Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964.” That’s over two years of B&B Hill reinforcing their experience with one another prior to Simon's involvement. Plenty of time for the Hills to have generated a myth amongst themselves to the point that even a skilled analyst would have trouble debunking… Simon said: “"It is very difficult to lie under carefully administered hypnosis. Especially six months of it.” The Hills wouldn’t be lying if they themselves utterly believed in the experience/myth they both believed they shared… Carl Sagan explained quite well the ’star map’ produced by Betty Hill… ~rore That might be true except the didn't share stories because Barney didn't want to discuss it, Betty says that...So does the dr and the article from Look state this as well. Every time betty mentioned anything Barney would stop her and they would not discuss it. So that sort of takes away that theory, next! *S The dr contemplated that as well and discounts it later in the article.. It wouldn't matter if they discussed it, the dr was not asking them questions about it, he was trying to see where the trauma came from...the story came out under hypnosis. I think I go for the dr as he knows his stuff I have read up on him and he was top of the field in trauma cases from world war two especially.., and didn't lead the soldiers on either as he didn't know what was wrong with them except tit was related to their war experience..He is not a UFO hypnotherapist, never was never would be.. Well carl sagon had a bet with a colleague that there would be polar bears at the South Pole of Mars and later in life said they are both waiting to collect. So........ Barney DID not believe in the experience at all and tried to hide it from his daily life until it consumed him privately...If you read the entire look article and the drs report and Barneys and Bettys actual statements and later interviews, you can there is no wanting to relate the story, he didn't want to believe that anything happened, and all he knew was they saw a strange aircraft that niggled him as he knew it was very strange.. He no conscience thoughts of the beings... |
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Apr 11 2008, 10:05 PM
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#16
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,038 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Gulf Coast Member No.: 4,863 |
Tc posts: That might be true except the didn't share stories because Barney didn't want to discuss it,
================= Rore posts: I didn’t say they shared stories… I said they had two years in which to reinforce their shared trauma. Just living together would reinforce this. I also said Betty is the one who dreamed up the complete story and I do not believe she did not tell Barney about it… ============================== Tc posts: Every time betty mentioned anything Barney would stop her Rore posts: Which proves Betty, more than once, did mention her story to Barney. How many times? ======================= Tc posts: the story came out under hypnosis. Rore posts: According to Betty, the story came out from her dreams a couple of years before they saw a hypnotist… I already mentioned Simon’s credibility is not in question here, it is not about Simon. It’s about how Betty came to put together her experience. She admitted to putting it together via her dreams… Plain and simple. Her abduction story is a recounting of her dreams… Barney being in a state of denial is not something I would find uncommon in trauma victims... This post has been edited by rorechof: Apr 11 2008, 10:07 PM -------------------- Peace&Love~rore
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Apr 11 2008, 10:50 PM
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#17
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![]() ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 3,513 Joined: 10-July 06 From: Wild Rose, Wisconsin Member No.: 4,643 |
Dreaming about a traumatic experience is not unusual.
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Apr 11 2008, 11:31 PM
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#18
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,038 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Gulf Coast Member No.: 4,863 |
SD posts: Have you read the book on the entire story Rore?
======================= Read the book, saw the documentary etc… But has it been ascertained beyond a shadow of doubt that the Hills were actually abducted by ET‘s? Not to my knowledge. As you think their story rings true, I think that little niggling at the back of my mind is telling me there is more to their traumatic experience than they related to the public or they themselves accurately remembered… ~rore -------------------- Peace&Love~rore
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Apr 12 2008, 03:54 PM
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#19
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![]() ![]() Group: Super Moderators Posts: 3,513 Joined: 10-July 06 From: Wild Rose, Wisconsin Member No.: 4,643 |
There could be, but we will never know for sure now...will we?
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