I am wonder,about your personal proposition about changing this what is wrong today On Earth,and do are doing something already or you decided just wait and see.

We constantly change direction in terms of society.
As one whole society, in the west we are ruled by technology; I see no reason for a change from this as it doesn't have quite as many flaws as a society run by say, religion.

But, to change everything wrong with society could only be done with an iron fist; a dictatorship. People can't handle the ability to have free speech and many of societies problems are caused by this abused right. But using a dictatorship causes a paradox in that it is also a major problem and something you generally don't want.

As in poverty... This would involve doing things to the planet that people (i.e., Tests that change rainfall levels) really won't like... and although the final effect s what they're crying for, they're so hypocritical they won't allow it to happen. These Eco-friendly groups that don't shut up until we agree to not touch a single piece of soil and live in the sky are in the way.

The personalities of people are a major problem; yet again because of free speech, people are allowed to say whatever they like about others and nothing happens to them... Unless of course they are of a different race, in which case its a hate crime...
What part of hurting anybody, whatever their race separates it from being a hate crime?


BTW: Welcome to AU, Gilan!

This post has been edited by Xeno: Mar 16 2008, 04:25 PM

[quote name='Xeno' date='Mar 16 2008, 05:23 PM' post='351096']
We constantly change direction in terms of society.
As one whole society, in the west we are ruled by technology; I see no reason for a change from this as it doesn't have quite as many flaws as a society run by say, religion.

But, to change everything wrong with society could only be done with an iron fist; a dictatorship. People can't handle the ability to have free speech and many of societies problems are caused by this abused right. But using a dictatorship causes a paradox in that it is also a major problem and something you generally don't want.

As in poverty... This would involve doing things to the planet that people (i.e., Tests that change rainfall levels) really won't like... and although the final effect s what they're crying for, they're so hypocritical they won't allow it to happen. These Eco-friendly groups that don't shut up until we agree to not touch a single piece of soil and live in the sky are in the way.

The personalities of people are a major problem; yet again because of free speech, people are allowed to say whatever they like about others and nothing happens to them... Unless of course they are of a different race, in which case its a hate crime...
What part of hurting anybody, whatever their race separates it from being a hate crime?


BTW: Welcome to AU, Gilan!
I think we aren't drive by profit (money)and our materialistic values(if you have more things ,more expensive,you more importnant) than by technology.Technological changes are driven by something ,what we are calling profit.What is your take for trying to be drive by Laws of nature.

First off, we need to acknowledge what is wrong with our societies and our world. A lot of people out there don't believe in global warming; racist and prejudice people sincerely believe that they are right in their ways; people cannot agree how to deal with criminals properly; and so on and so forth...

Until we as a society can fully agree on certain prime issues, nothing can really be done. It's my personal believe that we need to do more to keep our environment safe. I feel that we need to enforce harsher punishments to teach the sickos out there a lesson and to hopefully keep future criminals from doing such things in fear of those punishments. We need to stop giving advances to certain genders, races, what have you and try to keep things EQUAL. We need to stop laws from oppressing people (e.i. homosexuals being unable to marry) who are doing nothing wrong. Drugs and mind-altering substances need to be controlled, not completely fought. I'm also hoping for harder forces against terrorism (don't even get me started on Obama's proposition that OPPOSES spying on suspected terrorists). Hell, something also needs to done about the conflicts of over-population, a decline in jobs, and the rise in prices!

*sigh* But good luck getting this all taken care of. Humans have a nasty habit of always thinking they alone are right, and not being able to reach out for the better good.

IMHO, all the things wrong with the world can be boiled down to one thing - OVERPOPULATION.
The only way to sway from the path of self-destruction is by.. well... here is where it gets nasty:

- control population
- educate people
- destroy christian missionary methods in the poor countries

I can think of many more, some more and some less controversial.

But basically, yeah, overpopulation = bad thing.

Senhuan, I mainly agree with you... but I do think that over-population could be tolerable if we were all educated better. Not necessarily about school-related subjects, but about real things in the real world. People nowadays, especially the youth, are so ignorant.

However, I don't see Christian missionaries being much of a problem in third world countries. I don't agree with religious domination in any aspect, but I've never seen any real impression being made by them in those type of areas. Let them waste their time.

GrabThyHand:

Oh, yeah. What I meant by that I guess was how they made asses of themselves by not introducing contraception, especially condoms to the third world, leading to disease and an explosion of population. Of course I'm not saying other parts of the world aren't overpopulated.

The pope is still saying that using condoms is wrong. This sort of mindset (which missionaries applaud) is what ought to be destroyed.

I think drugs alcohol suppoustu be for free,but before they became free we suppostu make a educate everyone about personal responsibilities,If you tryied and free you chance to lsurvive would be very low ,if you adult and you want to be alive you not suppoustu touch it.Today drugs ,alchol is form of slavery,we filling someone pockets in our expense,system wchich created doesn't work ,you capable to hit and live for a long time but if you would chose so when they would be free ,this would life treateing choice,another words choice belongs to you.Everyone would have decide,so many of us are saying we want to be alive but too many does choices wchich goes against what our mouths are saying.This way joke would be over,you wanna hit do it but you will pay aprice for your choice very fast if they would be free.And I think people wchich beging to hit,if they would know is equal almost to suicide would stop joking,and say they have right to do it.How many crimes would be gone either,majority crimes in today world is connected to drugs or alcohol ,if they would be free most of crimes would be gone.I disagree if you 21 years old you can drink ,more corect if adult you suppoust drink .

senhaun......overpopulation is at the heart of what is wrong......humans have always fought wars and taken advantage of what the earth has to give.....but now we are far beyond what the earth can take....so solutions need to be found and followed through.

GTH.....very well said....I agree. But then as a realist I do not see it happeneing any time soon...

Simply adding harsher and harsher punishments is no answer either. We must anaylize the root causes of crime and solve them to truely have a lasting effect. Otherwise you will eventually have a world of suicidal criminals with a moto 'More honorable to die fighting , than face death in a cage'. It would be caos.
I see all problems like an ailment of the body. If you just treat sympyoms you are not being cured.
It took us years to develpoe some of the problems we have, others have been with us since the dawn of man. None of these will simply dissappear by treating their symptoms.

That is barbarism! This is how to kill us all off, not stave off annihilation.

It's true, thousands of years have not gotten though out thick skulls that punishment may stop a person from the crime right then but like all force, it will not last over time. People will adapt to a life where the level of punishment needed will serve no purpose but to kill off lots of people. Punishment on a large scale is just mass self destruction.

Believe it or not the most important factor for our future is not population control or any other thing designed to restrict people in to doing what is right. What is important is 180 degrees in the other direction.

You see people want to live. And there is no better solution then to give them that chance. How do you do that? Support human rights, education, fair justice designed to support people's right to life and prosperity. The recognition that you can not take without giving forever so if you cut down a forest you better have a way to put another back if not more to account for how out of balance it has gotten.

I could get into some details but it would take allot explain why. I think it is best to just remind people that countries, civilizations, groups and so on often get misunderstood as if they are one life form. They are not,they all by definition are made up of individuals. This may seem stupid but people forget this. The best way to get a good healthy civilization is to give individuals the chance to do well AND to get them to look out for others too. There is no greater way to spot do badders than to make every person in the civilization your eyes and ears.

The true strength and power of any group, civilization, ... rests in how well every member of that group is doing. How much of a potential do they had to prosper? This is why population control is harmful. Without a doubt overpopulation DOES have problems. But if you cap the population you drive them down. I know overpopulation presents problems, but would you rather face a population (meaning individuals) that start fighting back as they ability to do well is stopped by other? You realize that you really need to consider just how violent some people can get. I mean some people will tear you and the retire civilization to shreds over this factor alone. The desire to have kids and a happy family (and that means more then 2 kinds for some people) is that strong.

If you cap out the population growth it will seem fine at first, but slowly you will awaken a demon that will grow until it brings down anyone and everyone that stands in it's way. It will result in war again and again until this cap is removed or there is no one left alive to enforce it. The planet could pay dearly if that happens. There is a point where people can get off this planet and go to another, that is our only peaceful solution. In all the problems of a high density population that increases in numbers there are up sides. One will be that thing called space and a greater guarantee that we will be able to be the masters of our own fate.

If you wish to secure a civilization's future, work on an individual by individual level. The rest will follow automatically.

SM.....I agree with you there....but the crime rate was very low when Vlad Tepish ruled Romania... .....its been said the Romanians actually would welcome him back....

Population control through education, education, and the cessation of archaic anti-contraception doctrines is barbarism? You have got to be kidding.

This post has been edited by senhuan: Apr 14 2008, 06:08 PM

the tools of population control are already in place,war,famine and disease.

war doesnt really help population control. it grows back to fast.

Population is controlled most effectively by economic development. Simply put, rich countries have low birth rates because children are a liability not an assett.

After having saved the Universe on numerous occasions I have concluded that the Earthlings are going to have to do this one themselves and eventually grow up a bit...what's left of them. Basically, it's too late and every time they say they're going to make things better they immediately go in a reverse direction. It's not that you just cannot trust politicians or bankers which you cant...you cant trust yourself if you're still naive enough to trust the aforementioned. Therefore please self-flagellate and begin wailing, tearing of hair and nashing of teefies at will. We prolly wont make it to the general erections and the three main republican candidates of the illuminati selection committee heretofore dubbed HILLOBAMAMACANIAC" are too late to save clipped coupons as saved by the messiah of coupon savers and flavor the savior of the supermarket cartel. Oh what was I thinking and where ami I. Yes it must be the three thousand pharmaceuticals peed back into the impure drinking water supply for which you should be grateful as thats your universal healthcare right now. why you ingrates. Stock up on GM foods, water, laser cannons and head for the hills before the global urban riots and chaos. Keep me posted...luv transthunar

to change direction, you only gotta turn your feet and move the other way!

No, I'll be serious a second. Why do you say something is WRONG with the world? Maybe the only thing WRONG with the world is that it is what it is but we don't accept it for what it is. We keep trying to make this planet into something its not and force ourselves to be something WE'RE not.

All this guilt is eating us up.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-George Bernard Shaw