I have just been on a training course for a week in Melbourne, the suburb I was in was Waverly, when I went down the street I recon for every white Australian, there were 5 Australians of a different nationality. The same applies for Richmond and Footscray which are primarily Asian now, StKilda has a huge Jewish community. Every suburb seems to have many many more Australians of International origin than White Australians. Id doesnt seem to matter where you go, Melbourne is a truly multicultural city that at least on appearance seems to have white Australians as a definate minority. I have not researched the real statistics, but by observation it appears that way. Now this is simply an observation, some of my best friends over the years have been of other nationality. My own family tree goes to England, Scotland, Germany, and Ireland in only a few generations. My Sister in Law is an Indiginous Australain. So I honestly dont have any issues with this. But Racism, so often at least over here In Australia, seems to be pointed primarily at white Australians. And in many cases this is very true. Just take our recent race riot on Sydney, it was shameful how these white Aussie kids behaved and the things they said. We also have much opposition to a Muslim school proposal here so there is much white Australians have to be ashamed of. Having said that, you know those emails that arrive that your friends forward on, the ones that have about a million people in the list above. Well I received this one the other day about Racism. It pertains to Australia primarily, but I suspect some of it may be relevant elsewhere.
I found it interesting. Now clearly some of what it says is rubbish and not truthfull. But it does have a ring of truth to it over here.
I know many white Australians feel that they have less rights than new Australians. I know many feel that they are the subject of Racism, more than other nationailties here. Here is the email, I was tempted to edit out the bits that I disagree with but i thought better of it, I will post it here and am interested to get your thoughts on it?

NO OFFENCE INTENDED TO ANYONE...

Proud to be a white Australian .

Someone finally said it. But how many are actually paying attention to this?


There are Aboriginals, Torres Strait Islanders, Kiwi Australians,
Lebanese Australians, Asian Australians, Arab Australians and boat
people from all over the place.


And then there are just Australians. White Australians, ordinary
Australians, who love their country. Australians who don't really care
about the skin colour of others - until they find themselves on the
wrong end of abuse because they happen to be white Australians.


You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me
'Australian Dog', 'White boy', 'Cracker', 'Honky', 'Whitey', 'Caveman'.
And that's OK. But when I call you, Blackfella, Kike, Towelhead,
Sand-Nigger, Sheep Shagger, Camel Jockey, Gook or Chink, you call me a
Racist.


You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the
Aboriginal suburbs such as Redfern and Muslim and Asian suburbs such as
Lakemba, Bankstown and Cabramatta the most dangerous places to live?


You have Invasion Day. You Have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
But if we had a 'White Pride' Day, you would call us racists.


You want us to study Aboriginal history and indoctrinate us to believe
that we are ruthless invaders. You want us to say sorry for something we
did not do. But, because we want to teach history as it happened, we are
racists.


If we had an organisation for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives. we'd
be racists. If we had a university fund that only gave white students scholarships,
we'd be racists.

There are many indigenous organisations that are only open to
Aboriginals. Are there any organisations that are restricted to whites
only? Of course not, because if there were, we would be called racists.


Australia has a flag that represents everybody. Aboriginals have a flag
that represents only them, but they don't think that's racist. However
if white Australians dared to have a flag that only represented white
Australians and white athletes who won an Olympic event ran around
draped in such a flag, they would be condemned as racists.


If you are not white, you can march for your race and rights. If we
marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not
afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us
racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police
officer shoots a Muslim gang member or beats up a Lebanese drug dealer
running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a
racist.


I am proud. But you call me a racist. Why is it that only whites can be
racists?


Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on...

Ok, thats how it arrived in my mail box. I have seen much of this behavior myself, and I confess openly that although I pride myself on accepting all people as they are, Black white or pink with spots, and I will give a white person a burst as quick as any other nationality if you do something bad to me.
I confess to some extent to feeling the sentiments in this email. It is very hard to accept a culture that clearly in so many cases, plain and simply doesnt want anything to do with white Austrailians, our culture or anything to do with us. We so often here see whole suburbs become little china, or little vietnam. So amny new Australians will not mix, and gather ion groups of there own nationality, not wanting anything to do with white Australia.
In my opinion racism can manifest in many ways other than name calling and stereotypes. It seems to me, that most of the time, the most racist people in Australia, are not the White Australians, but the new Australians, the ones pulling the racist card so often.

I have never been to Australia, but I agree with it.
Many of the things stated in the message could apply here in the US as well.

The term racists is being misused and done so hypocritically.
It is time those screaming racists, look themselves in the mirror.

similar in the uk.my point is you don't see the foriegners being accusssed of race hate crime,although whites do.we are slowly losing our national identity.in 1986 i was sent home from school because my socks had a union jack on themalbiet 10cm across.what is rascist about our national flag.maybe it would of been ok if it had KFOR or UN.

This post has been edited by macdaddy: Apr 4 2008, 09:09 AM

The e-mail appears to be a variation on one I've seen written for the US.

That e-mail could have been written about here in the UK and fit in just as easily as it has in Australia, except here in the UK we are the indigenous population yet we are still treated as second class citizen, priority seems to be given to any nationality moving here (or seeking asylum) but you dare not say anying because your classed as racit, anti islamic, or anti whatever, the flood of migrant worker is a joke crimes have risen god knows how much over the past few years but the problem is ignored and denied.....

damn it sucks to be white

Blame your ancestors.

I don't think it sucks at all. I think it sucks that people can't see past the color of their skin. But that's their problem. I'm perfectly content to be white.

Oh and would I be racist if I said 'proud' instead of 'content'? Hmmmm....

This post has been edited by iwant2believe2: Apr 5 2008, 12:34 AM

The biggest advantage of being white is we don't have to carry that massive chip around on our shoulders, like most other races do.....

not so much of an advantage when we have to apologise for the slave trade.i don't think its down to colour,it stems from the tribal instinct of human nature.....PROTECT YOUR OWN.

One of the things I hate the most about the whole situation, is that just by posting what I have, and thinking the way I do about it, it deep down makes me doubt and think, hell maybe I am racist. The whole thing blurrs the line as to what is reasonable and what is not.

if thats the case we are all guilty to some extent.

Ok, I guess its up to me to look like the bleeding heart liberal and point out why, yeah, it is a damn racist email and thought process.

First this part:
There are Aboriginals, Torres Strait Islanders, Kiwi Australians,
Lebanese Australians, Asian Australians, Arab Australians and boat
people from all over the place.


And then there are just Australians. White Australians, ordinary
Australians, who love their country. Australians who don't really care
about the skin colour of others - until they find themselves on the
wrong end of abuse because they happen to be white Australians.

First the lie is given...obviously the person DOES care about skin color or he wouldnt be writing. And in many cases it is WHITES who insist on keeping these titles around. When a crime is commited by, say an Arab Australian (Arab American, Black American, etc..) unfailingly the news reports it as being commited by an African American, Arab Australian, etc. I know Asian Australians who would LOVE to be considered "just Australian" but instead after 2 generations or more are still being asked "Where are you from?".

More over that second paragraph basically implies that Asian Australians etc are not ordinary Australians.. that it is White Australians who are "ordinary".





Next.. this:

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me
'Australian Dog', 'White boy', 'Cracker', 'Honky', 'Whitey', 'Caveman'.
And that's OK. But when I call you, Blackfella, Kike, Towelhead,
Sand-Nigger, Sheep Shagger, Camel Jockey, Gook or Chink, you call me a
Racist.

Yes, there are racists on both sides. But I find that people seem to overstate this.. you would get the impression from these anecdotes that all minorities spend all their time flinging racial epithets. Two wrongs dont make a right.



Next:

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the
Aboriginal suburbs such as Redfern and Muslim and Asian suburbs such as
Lakemba, Bankstown and Cabramatta the most dangerous places to live?

Wow. Do you really want a social-economic reason as to why Aboriginal areas and minority areas have a higher crime rate? Or is this an attempt to say that non-Whites are simply more crime prone?


Then:
You have Invasion Day. You Have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
But if we had a 'White Pride' Day, you would call us racists.

Frankly, this part is blatantly racist. Yom Hashoah is for remembering the Holocaust. Why wouldnt Jews every where remember that? Its an important tragedy in this religions consciousness. What is the connection to "Australian-ness" at all? Ma'uled Al-Nabi? Its basically a Muslim version of Christmas..in memory of the birthday of their religions founder. How is that un-Australian? How would that warrant a "White Pride Day"? As for Invasion Day? If you cant recognize that the history and identity of the Aboriginals of your nation is going to be different, then its no doubt that you feel frustrated by the state of racial affairs in your nation.



Next:
You want us to study Aboriginal history and indoctrinate us to believe
that we are ruthless invaders. You want us to say sorry for something we
did not do. But, because we want to teach history as it happened, we are
racists.

Based on the above paragraph, you clearly need some aboriginal history and cultural education if you believe that aboriginals having their own take on the European settlement of Australia is different. And if you dont believe that the British were invaders, you again, have just shown that you need education on the condition of Australia.

An apology.. I have mixed feelings on myself. But "for something we did not do".. that is true in a sense. But everyday the non-native population of Australia lives off of, profits off of, the crimes and misdeeds of those that came before you, and certainly there is no large scale movement to right those wrongs.. so maybe an apology.. to help people move on, to help people acknowledge their countrys bloody history.. is a good idea. If you want to teach history as it happened, then really teach how it happened. Too often what really happened has been distorted in all of the areas Europeans have colonized.


Next:
If we had an organisation for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives. we'd
be racists. If we had a university fund that only gave white students scholarships,
we'd be racists.

Yes. You would. Because in that case you would be giving scholarships based purely on skin color. Aboriginals are an ethnicity. Chinese-Australians are an ethnicity. Arab-Australians are an ethnicity. There is no "white" ethnicity. Whites could be of British, Irish, German etc descent. So then when we look on Google, just briefly..guess what we find? We find scholarships and organizations for Irish-Australians, German-Australians, Italian-Australians, Spanish-Australians.. thats as far as I checked. In other words, ethnic groups often help each other. Is that a surprise?


There are many indigenous organisations that are only open to
Aboriginals. Are there any organisations that are restricted to whites
only? Of course not, because if there were, we would be called racists.

Im not an expert on Australian law but I would guess that this is a civil rates law-language related problem. But as I noted above, I found plenty of orgnizations of various European ethnicities ..presumably those organizations are run and open to "whites".

Next:
Australia has a flag that represents everybody. Aboriginals have a flag
that represents only them, but they don't think that's racist. However
if white Australians dared to have a flag that only represented white
Australians and white athletes who won an Olympic event ran around
draped in such a flag, they would be condemned as racists.

Again, if you dont understand the history of this, if you dont have the empathy to understand this, the complex of emotions then presumably you need more education on the topic (which you seem to resent). Unique among the ethnic groups in Austalia, aboriginals are the only group that didnt go to Australia to become part of that nation. They are part of modern Australia because their ancestors were conquered. They did not flee a war-torn land for something better..they were not sent there to increase national prestige of England or relieve overcrowding.. There ancestors did not make their lives better by moving to Australia. Rather they look back to a time when their ancestors controlled the land, spoke their own language and were masters of their own destinies. So, perhaps it is understandable that they, like many American Indians, Canadian Indians, etc have complex feelings about representing a nation that has not always acted in their best interests.

Next:
If you are not white, you can march for your race and rights. If we
marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

It would depend on the law or rights you were protesting. The difference here is that traditionally it had been Anglo-Australians who have made the laws.. we would be surprised, wouldnt we, if they were making laws that discriminated against themselves. Yet, Australia has a long history of openly racist laws which should have been and should be protested. However if you were protesting for example, something like racial quotas.. many people, even who disagreed, would not accuse you of being "racist" but rather would recognize your idea of justice on the issue was different.

Next:
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not
afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us
racists.

The difference here again is social and historical context. A minority in a nation has to actively work at maintaining its identify because it is different, and to actively work at teaching the members of its minorities that they are not less simply because they are in the minority. As a white Australian, I dont youve ever given much thought to the effect on the pyschology of people whom rarely see themselves portrayed in the media, rarely see their customers reflected, continuosely are made to feel different.

There is also the historical context. Typically "white pride" movements have been connected not with simply "pride" but with "supremecy". You do not find in Australia groups of Arabs calling for the elimination of whites from the continent.. or for laws restricting white immigration. But on the other hand you dont have to search hard to find "white pride-ists" touting "White Australia" laws, etc.

And, as pointed out in the first paragraphy.. historically "white" Australia HAS been (and IS) the norm.. so you wouldnt need to say "White" pride.. it would be "Australian" pride.

Next:
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police
officer shoots a Muslim gang member or beats up a Lebanese drug dealer
running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a
racist.

Well..again..flat out racism. Who is "you"? Are we saying that all minorities are responsible? Are we going back to asserting that non-whites are simply more prone to commiting crimes? And the fact is that there is a perception in certain minority communities that Australian police are racist, and again, a quick google search seems to confirm that at last they reason to believe it (there are even books on the subject of Australian police culture of racism by academics).




Lastly, Im going to look at the allegation at the beginning that Australia is just chalk-full of minorities. According to the Australian government 85% of Australia is of European descent. 85%. In 2006 the Australian census bureau let responders choose two ethnicities to describe themselves. The top, non-European ethnicity? Chinese.. 3.4% The next non-white? Indian.. 1.2% Jews were mentioned in the mail.. Jews make up .4% of the population of Australia. Muslims? 1.7% In other words.. these are tiny islands of non-Europeans, with a history of discrimination against themselves.. from outriight culture-cide, to being made to feel unwelcome (see the White Australian laws), to feeling threatened (5,000 white youths attacking people of Middle Eastern origin because two life gaurds were attacked..?).

Religions will have their holy days. That should not make any Australians feel threatened..its a secular nation.

Different ethnic groups will tend to help each other out (including European ones).

As the vast majority, Anglo-Australians dont need a "support" group.. Australia is controlled by Anglos, its laws are those from Anglo-legal history, its predominant customers, manners, morals, behaviours are all of European, particularly British descent. It is those whom are different inside that context that often need extra support.

i was being sarcastic when i said that.

nice post vet to me it sounds like there are a lot of frustrated Australians and it is natural for humans to blame their problems on someone different but no one every asked what am I doing to make it better.

This post has been edited by Mandelasdiscple: Apr 5 2008, 09:23 AM

Can a black man be proud of his race but not a white man? Of course a white man can be just as proud....he just can't say it in public...lest society shame him for his 'racist' sentiments. Its a double standard and the only thing a double standards is good for is furthering inequalities.

Vetamur,
All I can say is that you have spoken like a true academic. I was going to try and take your post apart, but what is the point, you will have a text book answer for all of it. And I will lose. The reality is. Books and statistics don't have all the answers Vetamur. Most Australian big city suburbs you walk down, particularly in Melbourne are primarily non white Australian. Regardless of what your statistics say, if you had ever been here you would know that. If you had ever walked through Footscray or Richmond at night, you would know for a fact that you feel very lucky to get home intact. Why...because the streets are inundated with Vietnamese Gangs, selling drugs and causing strife. One of my acquaintances was part of the drug squad here for 20 years, based mostly in Footscray (where I used to live). He said the drug problem there is virtually uncontrollable. He will grab a Vietnamese drug dealer and ask him what he does for a living, they will answer I sell drugs (that is if you can speak Vietnamese) They will charge them, the court will let them go. And the next night they will be on the street again. They don't appear to have any distinction between selling drugs and building houses. It is considered by them a reasonable way to make a living in this country with chicken shit laws. Now that is from the mouth of a 20 year Veteran of the drug squad, not me. I only lived in Footscray for 2 years, Stkilda for 2 and moved around here and there in Melb for a few.

As far as the situation with Indigenously Australians go, again if you had ever wandered around our fair country and went to some of the more remote areas, like the NT and WA, you would see with your own eyes, hundreds of Aboriginals from day to day just walking the streets, burning whatever they can in our parks at night for a fire. Pissed out of there brains by the dozen sitting around on benches and asleep on the grass. When you travel here you get to meet lots of people. Did you know the Australian government has builders whose sole job it is is to go to government supplied aboriginal housing and put back the timbers from the floors and fences that they have burned, re plaster the walls they have smashed through. And I tell you now, you don't see this with white Australians, not to this extent, you don't see it with Vietnamese, Chinese, Indians, only our aboriginal community. Now this comment is a very unsavory one in this country and is almost always labeled Racist. Well it is not racist, it is reality. And you can call me a racist if you want, i don't care, my best mate as a kid was a full blood aboriginal, and my sister in law is Aboriginal. The statistics usually quote things like people born in Australia, forgetting that you can have large ethnic origin families that yes, the kids are born in Australia, but they are by sentiment 98% country of Origin. Mum and day hate white Australians so therefore so do the kids. This is such a complex problem that cant be understood by textbook responses and statistical figures. I am telling you straight. Many many places in our cities, you just don't walk at night, if you do, you are nuts.
And although there is a fair share of it coming from white Aussie kids, they are not the ones slashing people with swords in our suburbs, and knifing people, that is coming from our Asian community. It is very easy to sit in a chair and quote textbook responses and politically correct comments. But the sad REALITY is that there is one hell of a lot of hate, violence, and racism in our cities. And from what i have seen for myself. It is far from confined to white Australians. I don't know if it is fair to say that it is mostly from new Australians, but there seems definitely to be more hate from new Australians.

being proud of the norm is being proud to be white. Its like people who say that having African American specific channels on tv is racist, its not because everything else is for the white people, the majority. Hey what a concept.

Dundee.. Im not speaking like an academic, Im speaking from the heart. I grew up on a rez in the States and I know first hand what its like to be a minority in a country.. I know first hand the resentment that Euro-Americans have towards Indians who maintain some semblence of cultural identity. Im not a big Malcolm X fan, but there is more than a bit of truth in his statement "We didnt land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us".. in other words, the Aboriginals of your country didnt ask to be part of your country.. your ancestors stole the continent and now with that being the fait acompli they have no choice but to be in the country.

If you dont like the revolving door prison system in your country, then work to change it. Dont blame that on immigrants. The white majority created that legal system. If you dont like that fact that immigrants are turning to crime as a profession (because of course there are no Euro-Australians involved in the drug trade..oh, except those that keep getting caught in Indonesia with drugs and then whining about it), then start wondering what in your society is making those choices the easier ones. Just as in France, my money is on the fact that parts of society at least are closed off to them. Or, again, are you going to assert that non-whites are simply more prone to crime?

You say I gave an academic answer..yet you provide no answer to my charges. Your quoted email seems to deny that Australia has an imperialistic history.. do you deny that, for example, the Tazmanians are extinct? That the last Tazmanians body was put on display until the late date of 1947? Do you deny that Australias immigration policy for generations was called "White Australia" and that many, including you, seem to be clamoring once again for that policy, all the while Australians seem to so proud of being "multi cultural"?

Your excuses for demographics, by the way, are simply wrong. I was using your own nations CENSUS.. thats where they count the people in your country, not just the citizens. The census, and as an Australian you know this better than I, let people describe their own ethnicity. They were given up to 2 choices. So its reasonable to think that "white hating" Vietnamese would be identifying themselves as ..Vietnames. And yet, Vietnamese come up as less than 1% of your population, of which apparently you think the majority are drug dealers.

And, back to the actual contents of your quoted email, can you explain to me Dundee what is wrong with Jews remembering the Holocaust? Or Muslims marking the day the founder of their religion was born? These were the issues taken up. Do you really not understand why Aboriginals might feel disenfranchised in a society that took over their lands (at least the useful lands) and then dictated to them how to live?

You can pretend all my objections are academic.. that "real world" common sense just shows that non-whites in Australia are a problem, and its really not racist to think so. You can tell yourself that because Jews remember the Holocaust you would be justified in setting up a "White Pride Day". You can even tell yourself that Australia doesnt have a racist history, and then role it all into one and say "Thats just reality". But its not.