http://youtube.com/watch?v=tD5WlQ54Sg0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WbfjjnX4KtE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OQMfGm8H9Lc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4JLI0XiMGQ

Hey, Mandela! Excellent post. I'm not generally a fan of rap or hip-hop, but there are a lot of artists out there who make great stuff. These, for example are really good. We should turn this into the rap/hip-hop thread and see how many examples we can show.

no problem kirin-rex glad to see you like it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4jNyr6BJZuI

One thing that's kind of interesting that many people miss is that the two Blues Brothers movies are actually a showcase of different styles, influences and outgrowths of Blues. If you think about it, you can see how rap has had a far-reaching (though not always pleasant) influence on all kinds of music genres.

If we take the long view of rap:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rap
Then it can include a wide variety of things ...

For example:
Beastie Boys - No Sleep Til Brooklyn (Rap Meets Heavy Metal)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RI2IyHXJo5M

Black Eyed Peas - Shutup (Rap Meets Mainstream)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KoNLAqG6muY

Blues Traveller - Hook (Rap Meets R&B: Listen from 3:06)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cjukZs6R6LI

Bare Naked Ladies - One Week (Rap Meets Alternative: Listen from 2:57)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8O0r_U2fG-I

Reunion - Life is a Rock, But the Radio Rolled Me (Rap Meets the 70s)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=16kh-AP4OCU

Billy Joel - We didn't start the fire (Rap Meets a Rehash of 'Life is a Rock')
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UtUNPyo3anQ

Bob Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blue (Rap Meets the 60s)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-xIulyVsG8

Vanilla Ice - Ice Ice Baby (Rap Meets Pathetic Gangsta Wannabe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxN_pbMOFk0

Jim Carrey - White White Baby (Rap Meets Jim Carrey: this is a fun parody)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqm-A43AnUI

Orange Range - Hana (Rap Goes to Japan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OsQQDhAYlU

I liked the third one, nice to see some positive stuff going out to the kids. But that last one, I still say it is all criticism of the nasty white folk, with no blame for anyone else. Listen to the Lyrics of the last one, you dont get a more simplistic view than that. You talk about Sierra Leone, mate it is not truck loads of white folk running around killing people there. Sure we all know about blood diamonds, we know that they are sent west for fat usually white business men to make millions off. But who collects them, who runs the gangs of murderers running around the place. They are the same people from the same villiages as the people they are killing. But then I guess thats the white folks fault too. It is easy to take a simplistic look at something, and blame the white man. I hate this sensational blame game that these lyrics portray.

Lets look at them hey, shit Mande, it is blaming the white man for everything, is there anything that African Americans will take responsibility for?

In my opinion, all this crap does for young african americans is to teach them it is not there fault, its the white mans fault, blame him and take no responsibility for yourself. Tell me one positive thing that comes out of that song Mande, just one? And I'll go he.
All it preaches is hate.

eg:
Control the content of lyrics, now only the sound
Of sex, dope and murder in a song is allowed

Ummm isnt he writing the lyrics?
Look, I just started to cut and paste lines and verses from this and comment on it, but I won't bother. It is such a load of crap, all you have to do is read it, he goes on about controling lyrics, what is being taught and so on, shit mate, thats is exactly what he is perpetuating in this .....song.
This is what I hate, not the black, yellow or red man, But this wallowing in self pity, baming everyone but yourself for your predicament. We all have shit happen, I am a weeks fortnights wages from losing my house in a possible job restructure. And before you say at least you got a job and a house, I worked my arse off to get it, I stayed at school, I went to uni, I worked and saved to get where I am. I was in a pretty bad place as a teenager, I sat down one day and was trying to give up ciggarettes, i tried on and off for ages but couldn't. Then one day I was talking to a freind about some things, saying I am gonna do this and I am gonna do that and I realised something. I realised that if I don't even have the self dicipline to give up ciggaretts, how am I ever going to dicipline myself to make something of myself. So i gave up the smokes, the drugs, the crappy lifestyle and all she shit that went with it I have a drink now and then but havnt been drunk in years, and got my act together. And It was bloody hard work.
I could tell you a thousand reasons in my life why shit was hard, there is heaps of people, heaps of government policies and rules that seem to have the sole purpose of making things hard for people. But hey, here I am, blaming no one. If I fail, well its my fault, not the black mans, not the yellow mans, not the red mans, not president bush's not my governments, but my fault.

I ask you again, tell me one good thing lyrics like this teach yung african americans kids.
You cant, because all it teaches is hate, and blame and self pity, and hiding from responsibility.

Give me the second clip anytime.

This post has been edited by Dundee: Apr 27 2008, 06:24 AM

I liked the third one, nice to see some positive stuff going out to the kids. But that last one, I still say it is all criticism of the nasty white folk, with no blame for anyone else. Listen to the Lyrics of the last one, you dont get a more simplistic view than that. You talk about Sierra Leone, mate it is not truck loads of white folk running around killing people there. Sure we all know about blood diamonds, we know that they are sent west for fat usually white business men to make millions off. But who collects them, who runs the gangs of murderers running around the place. They are the same people from the same villiages as the people they are killing. But then I guess thats the white folks fault too. It is easy to take a simplistic look at something, and blame the white man. I hate this sensational blame game that these lyrics portray.

Lets look at them hey, shit Mande, it is blaming the white man for everything, is there anything that African Americans will take responsibility for?

In my opinion, all this crap does for young african americans is to teach them it is not there fault, its the white mans fault, blame him and take no responsibility for yourself. Tell me one positive thing that comes out of that song Mande, just one? And I'll go he.
All it preaches is hate.

eg:
Control the content of lyrics, now only the sound
Of sex, dope and murder in a song is allowed

Ummm isnt he writing the lyrics?
Look, I just started to cut and paste lines and verses from this and comment on it, but I won't bother. It is such a load of crap, all you have to do is read it, he goes on about controling lyrics, what is being taught and so on, shit mate, thats is exactly what he is perpetuating in this .....song.
This is what I hate, not the black, yellow or red man, But this wallowing in self pity, baming everyone but yourself for your predicament. We all have shit happen, I am a fortnights wages from losing my house in a possible job restructure. And before you say at least you got a job and a house, I worked my arse off to get it, I stayed at school, I went to uni, I worked and saved to get where I am. I was in a pretty bad place as a teenager, I sat down one day and was trying to give up ciggarettes, i tried on and off for ages but couldn't. Then one day I was talking to a freind about some things, saying I am gonna do this and I am gonna do that and I realised something. I realised that if I don't even have the self dicipline to give up ciggaretts, how am I ever going to dicipline myself to make something of myself. So i gave up the smokes, the drugs, the crappy lifestyle and all she shit that went with it I have a drink now and then but havnt been drunk in years, and got my act together. And It was bloody hard work.
I could tell you a thousand reasons in my life why shit was hard, there is heaps of people, heaps of government policies and rules that seem to have the sole purpose of making things hard for people. But hey, here I am, blaming no one. If I fail, well its my fault, not the black mans, not the yellow mans, not the red mans, not president bush's not my governments, but my fault.

I ask you again, tell me one good thing lyrics like this teach young african americans kids.
You cant, because all it teaches is hate, and blame and self pity, and hiding from responsibility.

Give me the second clip anytime.


Arrghhh, this new Forum wont let me cut and paste anything, it is infuriating.
I was trying to post the lyrics, but I cant so here is a link to them.

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/paris-evil-lyrics.html

This post has been edited by Dundee: Apr 27 2008, 06:31 AM

You know, though, reading the actual lyrics is an interesting experience.

There are only a couple of instances that seem to mention race or seem to point the finger at whites.

A lot of this song is about people in authority, and how they manipulate things to keep themselves in control.
The other thing is that although the singer might be implying that whites:



The truth is that PEOPLE are teaching EACH OTHER this. Media reinforces it, but lots of times, it's not the government teaching this. It's kind of like, when you've got somebody who works hard, people who don't work hard don't like it because it makes them look bad, it raises people's expectations, people are less likely to accept excuses. You know what I'm saying?

dundee In the last song your everyday common white man is not being blamed for anything its almost racist to assume that. Paris is talking about people of authority not necessarily white but powerful, and greedy.

and yes there is alot of things African-Americans will take responsibility for like my grandmother raising six kids in one of the most crime filled ghettos in the world by herself while on welfare with everyone of them coming out of it a successful person and my dad raising four kids as a great father despite never having one of his own. Don't give me shit about blacks not taking responsibility cause you have no idea what you talking about.

if you think that song is preaching hate towards the white man well your wrong its talking about opening eyes to the oppressor so you can know how and why things are as they are.

Yes radio, tv and music industry do control the content of lyrics and what gets played hence why artistic hip-hop is forced underground and gets minimal airplay.

once again the song criticizes authority not white people.

here is more hip-hop:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=td9PCSgUJAw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WmQgcefVNP0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c4MBEEHhdQY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hkCeOSoLT6U

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vl0peys90

This post has been edited by Mandelasdiscple: Apr 27 2008, 04:24 PM

You know, I totally agree with you there, Mandela. Back in the states, I used to listen to this Indies Alternative station, and the stuff they played was so much deeper than the superficial pop on most radio stations. It was a mix of rock n roll, pop, alternative, blues and folk: but people weren't just singing about going to parties and meeting a girl/boy. They had songs about all kinds of things. Some of the best music out there doesn't get time on the radio, doesn't get sold in stores, and definitely doesn't show up on MTV.



After reading the lyrics, I would agree with you there.

You know, I used to live in a lot of blue collar towns. When you're poor, you have no job security, you have no control over what happens in your life because whether or not you get laid off for half the year is up to some pencil-pusher who'll still have his job even if you don't have yours, when your kids get into fights at school because some kid with the right shoes and right brand of jeans made fun of his K-Mart specials, when the clinic won't see your baby because you don't have insurance, man: it gets to you. Some people drink. Some people run away. Some people just get angry. Desperation is desperation, no matter where you live or who you are. It would be funny to look for parallels between Rap, Blues and Country Music.

No disrespect meant, but this is the same rubbish as in those lyrics. It is an excuse, you are grabbing at sentences rather than looking at the big picture. I disagree with you therefore I don't know what I am talking about. As if i meant all blacks not taking responsibility, I am glad your dad and gran did so well, they are obviously very hard working good people and they have as much respect as I may give them without knowing them personally. But hey, i did not say all did I. I am talking about the attitude of self pity and blame portrayed in those lyrics. And as far as your comment "its talking about opening eyes to the oppressor so you can know how and why things are as they are. " Don't give me that rubbish, you don't beleive that any more than I do. It is a simplistic view of a very complex problem, that just takes the easy way out by pointing the finger at everyone else. I am sorry, i did generalise when i said blame the white man, that song does not solely do that, but plenty do. And of course I don't mean all people. But it is you that says your people are opressed, and are in this bad place, so Ok I accept that. My question is, does wallowing in self pity help, does blaming others help?
No one makes a kid drop out of school but the environment they find themselves in, there peers, and there lifestyle. No one makes a kid go out and treat his girl bad, no one makes him take crack, no one makes him sell drugs, no one except his peers that is, but hey thats the "Authorities" fault isn't it. You mentioned your gran and dad. What was it that made them do such a good job? hate and self pity, or hard work and teaching there kids right from wrong, teaching them how to succeed instead of how to blame others. That is all I am saying here. I am saying that if you have created this seemingly hopeless culture of drugs and crime, your not gonna fix it by wallowing in it. Tell the kids to get the hell off the streets and stay in and do there homework, tell them to treat people well. Dont stand for dick heads like Paris who seems hell bent on reinforcing all that is bad in your world, don't buy his music, don't listen to his crap. Stop glamorizing this world that you portray as so awful. Is seems as if it is worn with a badge of pride.

Your tag is Mandelasdiscple, a great man no doubt, so read this and a quote from DH Lawrence

D H Lawrence recognised the dangers of self pity with lines that we all should remember: "A bird will drop frozen from a bough/Without once having felt sorry for itself." But I learn from today's Guardian (21 June, p 1) that even the most powerful man in the world can be infected with self pity. Bill Clinton, whose autobiography is published this week, was consumed with self pity when pursued by prosecutors over his affair with Monica Lewinsky.

Two Africans rescued him. A Rwandan woman described how she had overcome self pity after her husband and six children were hacked to death, and Nelson Mandela, perhaps the greatest leader of the 20th century, told him how he had managed to forgive those who had imprisoned him for 27 years. "I had to let it go," said Mandela. "They took the best years of my life... They destroyed my marriage. They abused me physically and mentally. They could take everything except my heart and mind. Those things I would have to give away and I decided not to give them away."
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7455/0-g?etoc

I ask you again Mande, what good does self pity do, what good can possibly come from those Lyrics?

This post has been edited by Dundee: Apr 28 2008, 07:18 AM

there are songs that wallow and there are songs that offer solutions but i do not agree with you about the song in question. It is clear to me that you cannot be convinced otherwise so i'll just say i don't agree with you.