Ben has delighted me with an interesting new post in the Off Topics area called "Let's get serious". Ben alludes to the idea that we might have 'destinies'...

People of the Forum, what say you? Is it destiny and fate or is it chance? If destiny, could each individual destiny play a part in a univeral, shared destiny? Are some called to action and others not? Could all our struggling and malcontent be the result our inherent imperative to fullfill our destinies? And what if we fail at our task? Does another take up the banner or are we born and born again until we've seen it through?

C'mon, lets hear it... :cool:

Well Tutu I believe the individual themselves gets an 'insight' into where they should be headed. And in it's own way that in itself is 'destiny'. When I was married to my first wife I lived in a slum area and was poverty stricken and yet I used to tell her.."This isn't us darlin'. I can feel it in my bones. I have no idea what it is but one day I am destined for greatness."

I could have been delusional but that day arrived and life has never been the same since. I went through a period where I knew 'nothing special' was going to happen...now I'm going through another (ten years later) of those "Oh shit greatness is calling again" moments. Somethings waiting up ahead for me. I know not what it is but it's coming and I have a sense that it will be soon. Yet I seem to have no control over events.

Ben

Ben I too believe in such...

I dont know about 'greatness calling' me tho' but I do feel a restless stirring that is at once elusive and provocative...could it be destiny?

Yes it is...it gathers as a feeling at first! Then it happens.

Ben

to iwant2believe2,
these things are like grey areas...a destiny is detemined once you get there...a fate is what you end up with...chance is the roll of the dice (unforeseen occurances)...

I do beleive that wea re masters of our own destiny, but our fate may not end up like we choose because of unforeseen occurances. However, try to prove that? Just think on it..that is the only measure...your thoughts, your ideas, your beliefs.

Lona...thank you...nicely put and no biblical quotes!

A poem as you contemplate destiny...

Love's Destiny
"Like the mystery of the crescent moon,
My dreams rhythmic atmosphere radiates love's tune,
I can feel my sweetheart's eloquence stirring my longing soul,
Her responding desire only time will unfold,
As my mind's eye reflects past passions of crime,
The question appears `Can perfection be divine?'
And then an angel gently whispers through the softness of my sleep:-
"Don't let love pass, it's all yours to keep,
And as to your love's response, its not as immortal as it seems,
Destiny can be carved through the shadow of your dreams,
For love such as this surely never dies,
Search deep your heart and there the answer lies,
Destiny and fate both await the fragrance of love's mould,
As once prophesied by the magicians of old."
Upon waking, fortunes favours eroded my inhibition prompting such a dare,
For no-where on earth can beauty be found so rare,
For somewhere within such a vast universe untold,
My sweetheart's love for me reciprocates the desire of my soul."

-Hooman Anvari

these things are like grey areas...a destiny is detemined once you get there...a fate is what you end up with...chance is the roll of the dice (unforeseen occurances)...

I do beleive that wea re masters of our own destiny, but our fate may not end up like we choose because of unforeseen occurances. However, try to prove that?
I agree completely there, Lona!

Trust me..I've been there and you can argue that you cannot generalise from one man's experiences. There is an element of control, where you really are the rider on the chariot and boy do you charge and everything flees from before you but that's when you're on your own ground. Suddenly you enter new terrain and the horse suddenly thinks twice, you suddenly think twice and it is in that hesitancy that you get nailed. Because the keepers of that terrain have been waiting for you. My horse and I faltered and were like lambs to the slaughter. Next time though....next time. THERE WILL BE NO STOPPING ME!

Ben *Man on a mission*

I have some strange views on this subject. When I was 14 I somehow ended up right smack dab in the middle of the Evangelical "predestination" debate. I don't know if any of you are familiar with that subject, but all hell broke loose within the Christian Church over this theological controversy.
I believe there is some real, yet unfathomable paradox between free will and fate.
We are masters of our own destiny, but the future is somewhat already written.
This is very far fetch, I know, but maybe parallel universes, alternate realities, and different dimentions come into play. Or maybe I just read too much sci-fi as a kid.

Ben, who is the keeper of the horse in your metaphor?

Is it death? When asked: who can add one cubit to their lifespan..did it mean we could not?...or was it a question in a parralle situation? All tickers wind down in due time..but can we set our biological clocks?

Sociological evidence suggests that the natural life-span for a human is 40+ anything over 50 is due to improvements made scientifically and in understanding how our body works.

It was my horse Lona...I chose to drive it...and I stumbled along with it. I was the bringer of my own misfortune through lack of preparation. Won't happen again.

Ben

well i believe there is not one destiny..we have more than one destiny ...every stage of our life is destiy and when we complete this stage we complete our one destiny....but our last destiny is grave where we will be buried after our death for this world...and again another journey to destiny starts where we will wait for the day of Judgement and we will be judged and sent to heaven or hell..thats our final destiny........but we don't, may be there are more destinies waiting for us even after we are in heaven.....so maybe there is no end to our destinies....we get one after the other


DD

Hearing what Sirius has to say, I can see that the word “destiny” can be viewed as an end to a time or journey in time. This is why I defined the word “destiny” as being something we can be the master of.

Our hopes, dreams, imaginations, missions made from our hopes and dreams, and imaginations are the filters of our mastery. We can master only what we perceive and we perceive only what we want, hope, and have determination to believe in. We formulate our future by our perception of our past; and, what we want or expect that the past and present will give us. We plan a journey through time and many expect obstacles, we are unable to see them and therefore lack in a mastery over many of them till they occur and we make adjustments. However, the key here is that we cannot s the future it is only what we hope, dream, and imagine it to be. If we look at the past and the presnt and compare the two we may be able to build a perspective about the future, but again that is only going to be based upon our hopes, dreams, and imaginations.

Our environment is what filters the imagination to make perspectives and hopes and dreams. Our forefathers beliefs, our education, and our own intelligence molds the perspectives. Destiny is the outcome we strive for that ends up as a fate after (chance) unforeseen occurrences have happened.

In an illustration. We set up a ball at the end of string and place the string on the top of a pole. We arrange the string, pole and ball to work in harmony so that the ball will always be a set position from the pole when put into motion. However, the wind comes along and tugs at the ball as it travels around the pole and the velocity shifts and the ball falters and the whole thing becomes a tangled mass. So it is with our life and destiny. We design our life to follow a set a pattern: school, work, marriage, children, retirement, but things happen and the world sweeps jobs under the rug, our marriage met runs around, and our children become strangers; then retirement funds collapse; what can we say about fate and destiny then? Did we get the mastery to drive our destiny to the success we wanted??

****Now if destiny is to be understood as something drawn out ahead of time by a force that masters all; then, fate becomes the result of that force’s influence and chance is the strange and odd happening of overpowering the force to get what we want. This makes our life into a struggle of guesswork wondering what the master plan is for a tiny speck like us and wondering how we can ever overpower the fate. We may imagine many paths and many stops and see that as a means to plan ahead to the next landing spot in time or to make adjustments to try and align ourselves to the great power that is in control.


However, unforeseen occurrences ( to me ) seem to act like bumps and stumbling blocks along our path that we decide and ( to me ) our biological make-up maps our “ mastery strength” (our brain becomes equipped) whereas the fate we have at the end of our destiny is the result of those unforeseen occurrences mixed with our mastery or lack of it.

Our destiny, then and therefore, would not be preset by a more higher force than ourselves. We would have freedom to choose and choose again as we learn how to become a master at the road in front of us until we do come to our fate (biologically or unforeseen) which would be the end result of whatever our unforeseen occurrences and level of mastery obtained.

The art of mastering our destiny:

The way we became a living soul would ultimately be left in the prevalence of the way we will become a non-living soul. Whatever force put energy into the vessel we are will have to replace the energy >>>or not>>>that being neither fate, nor destiny, nor foreseen. Whatever existence there is, was, or will be is not part of the mastery that humans can prepare as a destiny, fate or chance. Existence depends, then, not upon our mastery of destination, nor upon a preset destination or fate, but upon unforeseen occurrences that we must learn to adjust to>>> just as we are doing now>>> upon this planet, typing our thoughts upon a place in the air called the internet. We master it by knowing we have no hold on the end result, thanks to unforeseen occurrences.

But what is behind the unforeseen occurrences?

Is it the combination of all the possibilities given all the opportunities, and all the circumstances of time, places, and people? Is it like the game Russian roulette? Chance? Is unforeseen occurences the freewill of all things living set into motion and then left to toddle or not? What laws govern freewill and unforeseen occurrence? None? Is that why the end result is unforeseen?

HMMM, interesting points! Perhaps all are true!

I think, perhaps, that discord and chaos is all of our own making and so must be all of our own un-making. That, I believe, is our only destiny...to right the wrongs. It's a journey, from begining to end, and hopefully, in the end, we will have come full circle and find ourselves where we first began.

WOW,Lona...
That was really, really deep!!!
Everything you just said applies to Quantum mechanics, Astro physics, and Newtonian theory....as well as a spiritual quest.
Good God, girl! I had no idea you could be like that!
I completely agree with everything you just said, but had never consciously put it all together in that way.
Wow.

Not me, kellyb, but the spirit that is in me..the spirit of truth... we must always check things out and make sure of what is fine and hold fast to it. The deeper we go, the deeper we go...it is the spirit that serches deeper...the spirit of truth.

LOL, Lona,
OK. God's "active force" and "wisdom" are undeniably powerful. And cudos to your humility!

smile...blush....no comment