Hoping to get a good debate going on this subject. So, are we winning or losing the "War on Drugs"? Where do you stand on the issue of legalizing drugs?

In the last 10 years drug use hasn't dropped despite federal spending on the drug war rising 50 percent. And despite all the seizures, drugs are still as available as they ever were.

The government declaring drugs illegal doesn't mean people can't get them... it just means they get them on the black market, where they pay much more for them.

The only reason that coke is worth that much money is that it's illegal. Pure cocaine is three times the cost of gold. Now if that's the case, how are you gonna stop people from selling cocaine?

Does the government have the right to tell you what you can and can not put into your body? Government just protecting us from what is bad? Smoking kills 600,000 Americans every single year and you can still buy cigarettes in any convienience store in America along with your morning bagel and coffee.

Could it make the streets safer?
Jeffrey Rogers Hummel notes ("Heroin: The Shocking Story," April 1988), estimates vary widely for the proportion of violent and property crime related to drugs. Forty percent is a midpoint figure. In an October 1987 survey by Wharton Econometrics for the U.S. Customs Service, the 739 police chiefs responding "blamed drugs for a fifth of the murders and rapes, a quarter car thefts, two-fifths of robberies and assaults and half the nation's burglaries and thefts."

Because it is illegal, the drug trade today lacks many of the consumer safety features common to other markets. instruction sheets, warning labels, product quality control, manufacturer accountability. Driving it underground makes any product, including drugs, more dangerous than it needs to be.

Nobody denies that currently illegal drugs can be dangerous. But so can aspirin, countless other over-the-counter drugs and common household items yet the proven hazards of matches, modeling glue and lawn mowers are not used as reasons to make them all illegal.

Isn't it natural for humans to want to get "high"?

Another thing is that legalizing drugs could help put an end to prison overcrowding. And keep prisons for killers, rapists, etc

Anyways, let the debate begin.. lets see were you fall on the issue.

***

I read in Amsterdam, using marijuana is legal. Holland now has hundreds of "coffee shops" where marijuana is officially tolerated. Clients pick up small amounts of marijuana the same way they would pick up a bottle of wine at the store.

And the police regulate marijuana sales shops may sell no more than about five joints worth per person, they're not allowed to sell to minors, and no hard drugs are allowed.

Is that place falling apart? Everyone just laughing and getting high? Not getting any work done...

Fact: Every year, thousands of individuals are put in prison with murderers and rapists for smoking pot.

Fact: Someone who is stoned is less likely to endanger another person's life or wellbeing than someone who is drinking alcohol. We've all heard of abusive alcoholic fathers, but has anyone heard of an abusive stoner father?

Actual conversation between myself and a very stoned man in a popular late night/early morning eatery/hangout:

Me: "Haha! Your eyes are so bloodshot, dude!"

Him: "Man, I'm gonna kick your ass for that! Get over here!"

Me: "No."

Him: "Dammit."


Fact: Every year, the government wastes a large amount of money on "the war on drugs", which so far has been almost completely ineffectual.

Fact: (and I'm going over stuff andpau already said) Drugs only cost so much money because they are illegal.

Fact: Many teens only do drugs because they want to be "rebels".



If we legalized, regulated, and taxed drugs, the country would be much better for it. We'd not only spend less money on prisons and rehabilitation, we'd earn more money, and we'd have less deaths from drugs (if it's legal, companies will produce it, thus ensuring there isn't Comet Cleaner or some other nasty substance in it).

Also, it's very hypocritical to have two dangerous substances legal (alcohol and tobacco) and keep less harmful substances illegal (marijuana). For those of you that don't know, the tobacco companies have an iron grip on the government's balls and that's why marijuana is illegal.

all good points, but it means they'd have to spend money on policing it, but if they tax it they would make it back. Of course some of the harder substances should still be illegal but there is no reason for marijuana to be banned? I heard that something like 20,000 people died or were badly hurt due to alchol related issues in 2002, about 16-20 from cocain, and I heard of noone dyeing of marijuana, just think how much you would need to take to intentionally OD!!

Marijuana should be legalized. End of story on that.
As for harder drugs, I feel kind of conflicted. Heroine and cocaine, for example, truely are almost instantly addictive. And they're fairly easy to overdose on.
A 10 year old kid can break into his parent's liquor cabinet and live to be grounded. But if a kid were to break into his parent's heroine stash there's a good chance he'd not survive.
On the other hand, though, I'd like to see the government get out of people's lives all together.

But if the governments got out of peoples lives altogether we'd have kids OD'ing all over the place all the time with easier access to drugs..with parents who would know no better than to leave their drugs where the children could find them..no social services to take the children because the parents were od'ing on drugs themselves and neglecting their children.. there would be no courts or rules ...unfortunatley we need the governments... or anarchy would reign..in the drugs world as well as everywere else.......

Marijuana should be legal—no question about that. And *ahem*, it's most likely to start here in Alaska, where it's already legal to possess up to 4 ounces of it (that's only state jurisdiction, however)...

And yes, sriontoc (is there another name I can call you?), it is extremely hard to die from marijuana use. To OD on it, you'd have to have someone else doping you up after you're already passed out, and you'll probably only get lung cancer if you smoke a LOT (and you can still make "special brownies" or use a bong instead).

As for harder drugs... Hey, a person's body is their own. They should be able to do what they want so long as they aren't harming anyone else.

As for harder drugs... Hey, a person's body is their own. They should be able to do what they want so long as they aren't harming anyone else.

Agree with you there Hodge. Go ask people on the street if they think Heroin in dangerous. People know heroin, and other harder drugs are dangerous and are highly addictive. If they want to go down that path... its their life and they can learn from various places what the dangers are. There is no shortage of information.

But if the governments got out of peoples lives altogether we'd have kids OD'ing all over the place all the time with easier access to drugs..with parents who would know no better than to leave their drugs where the children could find them..no social services to take the children because the parents were od'ing on drugs themselves and neglecting their children..

Where does personal responsibility come in?

there would be no courts or rules
There will be courts and rules. Im not saying we don't need governments all together or anything..

On the other hand, though, I'd like to see the government get out of people's lives all together.
I heartily accept the motto "That government is best which governs least"

So they go find out and get mugged raped or murdered in the process maybe people know heroin is a hard drug.......but the kids dont know that..how young do you teach them...when are they expected to understand if the growns ups don't..



With education and law.... I think marijuana should be legal...nothing stronger tho...Holland has a better attitude towards drugs and their use...



I can agree with that..... having a government to help out rather than a police state that interferes..... :copcar: :cop2:

you can just call me srion, john (although I think thats taken?), JR I dont mind much whatever you'd remember.

as to making the harder drugs legal, it a tricky area, because on the one hand people should have the freedom to do what they want to themselves, but also the dangers may not be apparent to them and kids if they have them. if the parents high all the time they arn't exatly going to be able to explain to the kids drugs are bad?!

also remember that we live in a democracy, the government work for us! not the other way round, we should be the ones to dictate how the country is run, the governments seem to have forgotten this?

making harder drugs legal is a very tricky area..

This thread could be for one drug or all drugs legalized...

if the parents high all the time they arn't exatly going to be able to explain to the kids drugs are bad?!

How many parents do you know that do drugs now that have jobs, family (of their own), and livable income? So, you think if drugs are legalized tomorrow everyone in the country is going to run out and get them? I don't think that.

I dont think that dangerous, highly additictive drugs...coke, LSD, meth, heroin, etc...should be legal in any way...you dont make something legal just because keeping it illegal pads the pockets of black market dealers...pot should be legal but closely regulated...children should be educated on drug and substance abuse begining in primary school all the way up to high school...the government needs to stop supporting foreign drug trades and dealers...stiffer sentences need to be imposed on drug related crimes, including alcohol related, with no early prarole or lenient probation in leiu of prison time...additionally, drug dealers need to perform community services as well as hard labor...this is a hard topic for me as alot of my family members abuse drugs and some even sell them...my ex husband was both additicted and sold, as were his whole circle of friends...I could really take out the whole of my hometown with one simple phone call!

I disagree. Since kindergarten, the school system tried to brainwash me into thinking all drug users are these shady characters who want to get me into their car and do something so horrible to me that I didn't even know what it was. Or that they were my friends who'd try to coerce me into thinking that to be "cool" I had to smoke the joint he was handing me right in the middle of the school's hallway. You know which PSA I'm talking about, "I'm not a chicken, you're a turkey!" Ugh. I didn't even know what the hell marijuana was when they showed that to us in school. I thought they were Q-Tips.

Then, they showed us that half hour animated PSA where the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Garfield, Bugs Bunny, the Muppet Babies, and virtually every other animated character that was popular in the late 80s and early 90s tried to save this kid from the dangers of marijuana. Which, as we've all been told, is a "gateway drug", so most people who do pot move on to bigger and more dangerous drugs. That's a load of crap, by the way.

I don't know if anyone else my age remembers that PSA, but they must have showed us at least four times. What a good way to spend class time. Teaching me about the non–existent evils of a bunch of drugs I didn't know the first thing about. Maybe that was their plan—make the first thing I learn about drugs be that they're bad and they'll kill me.

They also told me that drunk people were never funny. Drunk people are often funny. Stoned people are even funnier.

It probably had to do with the fact that this town is small and has nothing to do in it, and consequently the marijuana use here is about twice the national average. Hell, my dad grew the stuff in his closet and I thought they were avocado plants because my mom grew those.


Anyways, legalize all drugs and make it known that punishments for drug related crimes are strict. Also legalize prostitution. If you can't beat 'em, tax 'em.

I see where you're coming from, Hodge. But I think there might be a way to educate children from, say, 4th grade on with the real truth.
I was shown propaganda type films in school, too. I think, in the end, they do more harm than good. But if educators just told the truth about drugs, I think there would be a lot less alcoholics, a lot more potheads, and possibly far fewer people addicted to hard drugs.
Like I said before, I feel kind of conflicted about legalising drugs like LSD, heroin, chrystal, and coke...the thought of people going into Wallgreen's to get a hit of acid doesn't sit well with me. The thought of an 8 year old seeing his parents sitting around doing coke, and deciding to try it for himself really frightens me.
When parents do illlegal drugs, they usually tend to hide it from their kids. But people don't hide legal drug use from their children.
What would happen if we were to legalize acid? How many people might try it not knowing what they were getting into? I kinda think there might be hundreds of suicides the first week. I guess you might have to have done it yourself to understand how truely bizzare it is...things can go very bad very fast on acid.
I wouldn't mind seeing exstacy being legalized. It can be addictive, but it takes a long time...even longer than alcohol.
I've had friends die from opiate ODs, so I don't like the idea of it being readily available.
And I've seen coke and meth destroy lives and families in less than 2 weeks, so I wouldn't really want to see that on the shelf at the grocery store and gas stations.
But, then again, adults kinda should be given the freedom to ruin their lives if they so choose.

Do you really think so Kelly? That adults should be able to do this if they wish? Because, I've never seen an innocent drug user...their use always has some effect on someone else....damn it, I say its time we get our friggin' noses out of the air and realize that we are all our brother's keeper... :mad:

I've known a lot of "innocent drug users". I know some people that are great parents and members of society that eat acid about every 2 or 3 months. I know another couple that smokes opium every other weekend...and another that does speed a few times a year. They are playing with fire, IMHO, but they are still innocent thus far.

I cant see that...because when they put that pipe to their lips or that acid to their tongue...do you really think that they are thinking in the best interest of their kids? C'mon, Kelly, would you let one them watch your son for you while they were high? Can you say that when they 'play with fire' that they really give a damn about their kids?

Here's an example...about ten years ago...I had a friend whom I worked with...she was a single mom with two young kids...now we didnt make much money and she was struggling to provide, you know...I felt for her and tried to help her as best as I could...though sometimes I just wanted to slap her and say 'Wake the fuck up and do something with your life...if not for your own sake, at least for your kids!" But I hadnt yet walked a mile in her shoes and so kept my mouth shut...anyway, one day she came to me and asked to borrow a twenty to buy some groceries to last until the end of the week when she got her food stamps in...I gave her a twenty and later in the day, I witnessed her purchasing pot with the same twenty...still I didnt say anything...and as I was taking her home that day, we stopped by the grocery store so she could get some food because as she had put it, her kids had nothing to eat...she came out of the store with a loaf bread, a package of balongna and a gallon of milk...to feed her kids for the next four days! She was a decent person and I liked her...but that went straight through me!

Now, pot is a fairly harmless drug to the system...and before I had my daughter and got into law enforcement...I enjoyed an occasional joint...this story really wasnt about pot at all...it is about how every choice we make effects others in our lives...and when a person, especially a parent, chooses to get high, then that choice will effect others in some way...and I find it very sad when the others that it effects are children

I hardly think that all the parents in this country are going to rush out and get high if it's legalized. A lot of parents (including my own) already did cocaine and LSD and heroine and all those other drugs back in the 70s and 80s. Those who do those drugs ruin their lives (and their children's) whether the drug is legal or not. Making it legal will just keep people from spending their life savings on drugs.

Agreed, there, Hodge...

I was never tought about drugs in school, we only got those stupid mini dramas about how pot ruins lives in tutorial. and over here people like to try and blame drugs for a large part of the bad things people do and claim they are all bad not realising alchol and tobaco are drugs! they always go on about how no good can come from them ect ect and how really bad people in the pit of their lives do them?
oooh hundreds of suicides, I'm for legalization now
and your only none inocent example is for parents, we're not all parents!? but yes, people are usually ignorant of the effect they have on other people, aften because they are ignorant about them selves.. but remember, its not drugs that ruin their live, its them choosing to take them that does it?