http://www.karlaturner.org/

Karla Turner, now deceased, was an alien abduction victim who fought back in the only way she could.
She became a UFO and abduction reseaecher.

She wrote three books on the subject.
Into the Fringe, documents her discovery and and study of her family and her own abduction phenomena.
Taken, a case study of eight women who were abduction victims.
Masquerade of Angels, a case study of a psychic who was an abduction victim.

The books are out of print but can be downloaded as a PDF file.

There is a video of a lecture she gave on the subject with a Q&A session at the end.

After conducting my own study of the UFO phenomena and the abduction phenomena I have come to agree with Karla on some aspects of this very real and mysterious subject.

1. The aliens are here on their own agenda, and not for our benefit.

2. They are so technicly superior that they are of demigod status. In every way they fit the definition by Arther C. Clarke. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

3. The exact product and use is undefined, but they are farming us. They consider us as significant in the same sense that we value our livestock.

4. They can manipulate our perception, our memory, and present as a virtual reality anything they want us to see.

5. They play into abductees belief systems and pre-conceptions for the purpose of control. Believe in God and they make you see Jesus. Believe in their visits as helping us and they will lead you to believe you have been chosen for that purpose.

6. Alien implants are for more than monitoring and location. Some implants can take over voluntary muscle control and switch the mind into docile mode.

7. Anger toward them has proven on occasion to disrupt their illusionary reality, but does not prevent them from doing as the will.

8. Our governments have chosen coverup and denial as the only alternative to admitting that there is nothing they can do about defending us from whatever agenda the aliens have in mind.

9. There is no fear of invasion or destruction. They are capable of influencing our reality as needed. They are already in control as much as needed for their purpose. Whatever product it is they harvest from us has been in process for a long time.

10. They probobly do have underground and underwater bases on earth as a matter of convience.

11. There is no information given to abductees or any other contact that can be trusted. They will diseminate false information to suit their needs. Zeta Reticuli, Mars or whatever they have given many places of origin suited to the contactees beliefs.

12. They will also give illusion of divine purpose, play into the victims belief in purpose, or make false promises of a coming revelation forcing governments into disclosure. It is all a lie for the purpose of control and to placate.

13. That they created us or modified our evolution is likely not true. It is part of the belief systems they readily dissiminate for their purpose.

As we develop our technology there may come a time when we can regain control of our own destiny and stop them from farming us for whatever products or purpose suits their needs.

It is also possible that they could see our rising technology as a threat to their control. How they might act on that threat would be determined by how dependent they are on whatever products they are harvesting, and the consideration that they may have more than one source.

It is likely that they would take no overt action against us because we have not seen any demonstrable attempt to keep us in the stoneage. THAT WE KNOW OF. It is possible that such history if it had occured has been kept hidden from us.

This is what I have come to the conclusion of in my studies of the UFO and alien abduction phenomena.

Your thoughts.

I... disagree with about 80%.

It's an interesting list. I enjoyed it.

I... disagree with about 80%.

Would be interested in what you disagree with. Reasons for, and alternative conclusions welcomed. Drew much of this from the vid of Karla Turners lecture. Watch it please then post objections.

Do not particuarly like some of the conclusions I made, they rule out any change in status quo for the immediate future. We have quite a way to go just to claim sovrenty of our own minds, would love to embrace an alternative.

asdasdasd <- testing something It is giving a some posting error when I post what I meant to put in this message.



This post has been edited by ScottMan: Jun 15 2008, 03:38 AM

Please note: I ran into an error posting this, it seams that you can't place this many quotes in a single post. To make up for this, all bolded statements are quotes form Bart5050's first post in this thread.



1. The aliens are here on their own agenda, and not for our benefit.
That is a rough statement, but I agree.

2. They are so technicly superior that they are of demigod status. In every way they fit the definition by Arther C. Clarke. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
true, but there is more to it then that, I have to say I agree but that this is very incomplete and really to a bit short sighted statement. There much more to this.

3. The exact product and use is undefined, but they are farming us. They consider us as significant in the same sense that we value our livestock.
This is not one I can agree with or disagree with, it is not a clear statement of a relevant factor yet not make off of poor observation, you have a point and a probable cause but I don't agree with it. It has some fact but is misleading.

4. They can manipulate our perception, our memory, and present as a virtual reality anything they want us to see.
... Ya right. It's called brainwashing. I don't buy all that telepathic junk. I think the fine art of brainwashing has become far too popular. Not to mention selling people on a lie they would never question.

5. They play into abductees belief systems and pre-conceptions for the purpose of control. Believe in God and they make you see Jesus. Believe in their visits as helping us and they will lead you to believe you have been chosen for that purpose.
No they don't. Not enough to deserve this statement. I refer you to my brainwashing statement earlier. I think you have greatly underestimated how far it has gone.

6. Alien implants are for more than monitoring and location. Some implants can take over voluntary muscle control and switch the mind into docile mode.
You don't need a physical implant to "make people docile" or to "take over voluntary muscle control". This borders on a subject that people don't grasp yet. There is a level of technology above all this, that works far better then anything your proposing. So again, it is being underestimated.

7. Anger toward them has proven on occasion to disrupt their illusionary reality, but does not prevent them from doing as the will.
Lol! I can't begin to comment on this one so i will leave it be.

8. Our governments have chosen coverup and denial as the only alternative to admitting that there is nothing they can do about defending us from whatever agenda the aliens have in mind.
I think you are wrong, I think you put too much faith in the "governments". I think they are just as lost as you are. When they get a crashed ship or something they won't know anything, much less were to start. They cover it up as the one thing they do grasp they can do on this subject. In other words scratch the intelligence out of the equation.

9. There is no fear of invasion or destruction. They are capable of influencing our reality as needed. They are already in control as much as needed for their purpose. Whatever product it is they harvest from us has been in process for a long time.
Hmm, again, I think you are underestimating them. I think you don't understand the devised systems for controlling mass populations well enough. You don't need to step in at every sneeze. There are tricks that work far beter, good enough that you can turn you back on someone and still know what they will do. I think seeds (in a relative sense) can be planted that will hold another in check, and that includes his descendants, that can confuse, control and force weaknesses into anyone. I think they don't need to watch our every move, I think we do a better job then they could should they stand over us with telepathy or stick us in a "Matrix". Like a disease, you can cripple someone and never tell them, they may or may not die from it, they may or may not behave from it, but they will be much more docile and weakened from it. After that, occasional tabs are all that is needed to find out what they are up to at this point. But it may be harder than you think to crush the will out of someone, even after they surrender, they may find the will to continue to fight. The last weapon of the defeated that never gave up is amnesia, forgetting the defeat is the last course of action such a person has to fight back.

10. They probobly do have underground and underwater bases on earth as a matter of convience.
Agreed. It would be convenient.

11. There is no information given to abductees or any other contact that can be trusted. They will diseminate false information to suit their needs. Zeta Reticuli, Mars or whatever they have given many places of origin suited to the contactees beliefs.
I agree, it is far better to say a thousand things to someone then to say just one lie. That is, if you want to confuse and hide the truth. Because this way, people will see "truth" in half of the statements, and if the real truth is found, it will only get lost in the sea of "cried wolves".

12. They will also give illusion of divine purpose, play into the victims belief in purpose, or make false promises of a coming revelation forcing governments into disclosure. It is all a lie for the purpose of control and to placate.
Lol, you are too innocent. You can do far worse then that. I see not reason to elaborate.

13. That they created us or modified our evolution is likely not true. It is part of the belief systems they readily dissiminate for their purpose.
You should go have a closer look at this. Perhaps you breezed over it a little too fast, or have another idea in your head that you have accepted as true that conflicts with this but never stopped to backtrack and question it too. "Open minded" does not mean you will accept anything, it means that you will not hold fixed ideas that prevent you form seeing something for what it is and presumably any truth it may hold. I think there is something to this subject, but you are always at liberty to disagree.

This post has been edited by ScottMan: Jun 15 2008, 03:47 AM

Why is it that they mostly only take americans..

[quote name='bart5050' date='Jun 14 2008, 08:15 PM' post='359783']
http://www.karlaturner.org/

After conducting my own study of the UFO phenomena and the abduction phenomena I have come to agree with Karla on some aspects of this very real and mysterious subject.

1. The aliens are here on their own agenda, and not for our benefit.
This mayapply to the ones doing the abducting here, but not all.

2. They are so technicly superior that they are of demigod status. In every way they fit the definition by Arther C. Clarke. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
This may apply to most, but not all.

3. The exact product and use is undefined, but they are farming us. They consider us as significant in the same sense that we value our livestock.
I do not agree they view us as livestock...no. It would appear they may be farming for hybrids for...?

4. They can manipulate our perception, our memory, and present as a virtual reality anything they want us to see.
Yes, but with good intentions...no malice deceptions.

5. They play into abductees belief systems and pre-conceptions for the purpose of control. Believe in God and they make you see Jesus. Believe in their visits as helping us and they will lead you to believe you have been chosen for that purpose.
Perhaps..but probably not.

6. Alien implants are for more than monitoring and location. Some implants can take over voluntary muscle control and switch the mind into docile mode.
If they can do this mentally, why use an implant???

7. Anger toward them has proven on occasion to disrupt their illusionary reality, but does not prevent them from doing as the will.
Hmmm. Anyone watch the pilot episode of Star Trek...The Menagerie? My gut feeling says, they are misunderstanding.

8. Our governments have chosen coverup and denial as the only alternative to admitting that there is nothing they can do about defending us from whatever agenda the aliens have in mind.
Coverup & denial..yes. Defending against their agenda, not the main reason.

9. There is no fear of invasion or destruction. They are capable of influencing our reality as needed. They are already in control as much as needed for their purpose. Whatever product it is they harvest from us has been in process for a long time.
This is spoken as if we are dealing with only one visitor. I do not agree with it.

10. They probobly do have underground and underwater bases on earth as a matter of convience.
Yes!!


11. There is no information given to abductees or any other contact that can be trusted. They will diseminate false information to suit their needs. Zeta Reticuli, Mars or whatever they have given many places of origin suited to the contactees beliefs.
Sounds like abductee paranoia.

12. They will also give illusion of divine purpose, play into the victims belief in purpose, or make false promises of a coming revelation forcing governments into disclosure. It is all a lie for the purpose of control and to placate.
(refer to my last reply)

13. That they created us or modified our evolution is likely not true. It is part of the belief systems they readily dissiminate for their purpose.
(refer to my last reply)

It could be that the US government made some deal and thus the reason...dunno.

Why is it that they mostly only take americans..

Don't think that is the case. It is more that americans see it as an alien abduction per say. They have been with us for a long time. Legends of good and evil. Monsters. Night terror. I saw an angel.

Either there is a very real entity driven phenomena at work.

Or it is part of our psyche to to have nightmares and confuse our dreams with reality.

We see UFO's in greater number all over the world. Many are probobly something misunderstood as such, when it was an aircraft seen in strange light.

Consider this report from the UK.

http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/freedomo...fenceregion.htm

Here they propose plasma balls as the source of UFO sightings that cause false memory and may cause these false memories or hallucinations to reaccur as sightings of the more fantastic nature.

In other words, abductions and visitations are natural phenomena causing repeat hallucination.

Not an American event- a British one.

It is interpretation that is cultural. The Chupicobra, Angels, Pixies, Farries, Leprechons, Trolls, Demons, and the Devil.

Memory screens have been with us for a very long time. They play into the belief systems of the culture.

Either this is very real, or all are products of how the human brain works.

It is only since photography and video that ancedotal or documentation evidence came to be. There have always been Gods for every culture. Never any proof, but always belief.

Consider the recent UFO vids posted here. Now we see them as spaceships. Older cultures may have seen the same as devils or angels.

Either it is all imagination and misinterpretation, or these others have been with us for a very long time.

The ancient gods. The bible. Or this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

After a war raged across the heavens. I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Hey guys. Personally, I do not have a clue. Never seen a UFO myself as other than a bright light in the dark sky that could have been anything.

Once I saw a strange silent and structured craft that I got a good three second look at, and a more distant longer view. It could have been a classified air force craft. I saw no fantastic speeds or incredable high speed turns. Straight and steady course. Fast but subsonic.

I am trying to understand the reports, research, vids, and pixs of others.

The scope and persistance of reports date back into pre history and continue. There seems to be something real at work for at least some of the abduction reports.

And the reports and assesments may be conflicted because more than one cause at work. Do not know.

If telepathic control and false memory screens are at work, then what we see cannot be trusted.

Why crop circles? Because it inspires people to imagine the friendly aliens with cryptic messages. It is a real anchor for false screen memory?

Now there's something that I've never been able to understand. If the aliens are so technologically superior to us, then their medical knowledge should also be "indistinguishable from magic"...

So why do they keep abducting people? They should be quite capable of gathering a very small sample of humanity and through the study/sampling of our genome, gain any knowledge about us that they wish to learn.

So why do they keep abducting people? They should be quite capable of gathering a very small sample of humanity and through the study/sampling of our genome, gain any knowledge about us that they wish to learn.

That is why I suspect they are farming us to harvest something.

Some things are easier and more energy efficient to get from nature than to create in a lab.

Problem with that reasoning is that it still places the aliens in the "not so advanced" catagory. If they must rely on us for anything, then they simply are not as advanced as is being claimed.



Not for an truly advanced civilization.

A highly advanced cloning lab would be MUCH more "energy efficient" than the hit and miss collection methods supposedly used by the aliens.

A highly advanced cloning lab would be MUCH more "energy efficient" than the hit and miss collection methods supposedly used by the aliens.

Pre supposes the nature of the product. Also assumes what an advanced technology might find worth farming or manufacturing without knowledge of any comparable society.

Is also possible they study impacts of environmental changes or biological modifiers that they introduce. Some things cannot be determined totally in a lab study. Thats why we conduct field studies.

This would be easier to understand if we knew more about physics and the very nature of life itself. Are we more than the sum of our parts? Does life have an unknown energy metric we losely refer to as the soul? If so then only life could hold a physical manifistation of soul.

We just don't know enough to answer the question, or to rule out possibilities.

You posted that the aliens are abducting PEOPLE to "harvest" something from them....and I'm pre-supposing something?



Why do you base your reasoning on what "we" would do? If the aliens are so far advanced, then comparing them to us is very foolish.

You have yet to give me a reason just why the aliens couldn't accomplish everything they needed to in a lab.



What does this have to do with what we are discussing...the "not so advanced" aliens???



There is a not so old saying that when any answer is possible, then all answers become meaningless. Speculation is fine, but at the end of the day there must be "something" to base that speculation on. A vivid imagination is in no way a substitute for testable evidence.

Testable evidence becomes PROOF.
Not all evidence fall into that catagory.
At the end of the day or argument our best guess must be based on a big mix of the best reports.

There is a not so old saying that when any answer is possible, then all answers become meaningless. Speculation is fine, but at the end of the day there must be "something" to base that speculation on. A vivid imagination is in no way a substitute for testable evidence.

I based this on the research and lectures of Karla Turner who became a ufo researcher after documenting the experiance she and her family were going through.

I cited her work on my first post on this subject. Watch the vid of her lecture in that link. The entire UFO and alien abduction phenomena is almost all ancedotal evidence. No physical proof. She documented and evaluated asking some hard questions of others conclusions.

Ive seen plasma balls or Balls of light.. had them pass right over me.. and i can
safely say i havent experienced any of what is said in that report.. not a damn thing.. so it does
not ring true to me.. the only state it left me in was thinking WTF was that


Heres a pic of the glowing ball i had pass over.. ive seen 5 of them so far

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm17/Co...r/GlowBall3.jpg

Image intensified to show more colour...