I was looking at a picture of an underwater ruin that is supposed to have been discovered near Japan. There are divers near the front of what looks like a man's face carved in stone. The view is from the side so it is not easy to see exactly what the front of the face looks like.

I also attached another picture of an ancient Egyptian artifact. In the 2nd level of the Egyptian stone tablet, it looks like the same image that is in the underwater Japanese ruin. The area to look at would be slightly left of center. The Egyptian artifact is very ancient and not in great condition so it is not easy to see what is in the picture. From what is in the picture it resembles the underwater Japanese ruin. To the right of the Egyptian tablet are people walking towards the area of what appears to be the stone scupture from the underwater Japanese ruin. There are 3 or 4 cirles above the people that are walking. I am not sure what the circles are suppose to represent.

On the 3rd level at the bottom, it looks like they are walking towards what is now the Sphinx except that the it looks like at the time the artifact was made, that the Sphinx had the head of a lion. If it is supposed to represent the Sphinx, then it was probably before the 1st dynasty, more than 5,000 years ago. At the top of the the Egyptian tablet is what looks like a ship. Maybe the picture tells the story of a trip the Egyptians took to the area of present day Japan.

I think that you have discovered Atlantis.

During the ice age the interior of the continents were cold, inhospitable, and inhabited by barbarians. A race of seafaring peoples built coastal cities and sailed around the earth. When the sea levels rose and the ice receded their cities went underwater and their civilization was lost.

We are just now exploring our oceans and rediscovering a lost history. Greek history was lost for over a thousand years and rediscovered during the reneisance.

As we gain more expertise with underwater archeology, we will rediscover Atlantien history.

I have noticed on the post I made that the underwater ruin near Japan has a look like an Egyptian sphinx. I attached a copy of a sphinx for reference and comparison. The picture could be compared to any sphinx image. I just attached one I found for reference.

It not easy to see the first picture I attached. The picture looks like the head gear comes out on the side of the face of the ruin just like the Egyptian sphinx.
So does this mean that the Egyptians once had a pharonic style civilization near Japan thousands of years before the Egyptian sphinx, pyamids, etc.? The civilization that existed near Japan would be the Jomon civilization.

I have also attached the Egyptian rock carving artifact that shows again the previously attached information. It is the picture that shows what looks like a trip to the area of Japan that is now under water. The outline in red (in center) would be in my opinion, the underwater rock carved image near Japan that is also attached. There is also another outline in red to the right in the center scene. It looks like a large cat face image- not a normal cat, something like a human type intelligent alien cat. It is also possible that it could be something like an Olmec person that turned out looking like a cat.

This post has been edited by tye: Jun 19 2008, 08:57 PM

One problem, Tye: I'm not sure, but I don't believe that this is a picture from the Yonaguni 'ruins'. The Yonaguni 'structures', by the way, are (according to some) completely natural formations caused by underwater erosion and other processes. They ARE amazing, either way.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8772408@N06/s...57602097554233/
http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html
http://www.divingobsession.com/location/us...;keyedType=DVST

Kirin Rex, I did not take the photo so I can say that it is definately from the Yonaguni underwater ruins. The information that I found seemed to include the photo as part of the Yonaguni site.

I am surprised there is not more information online about the site. It looks like a couple of divers went down and took pictures and posted online information. Not alot of pictures so you only get one choice for the picture I have which has divers covering part of the face and there is no picture from the front of the face- only the side.

What I can say about the picture that I attached is that it does remind me of an Egyptian sphinx. If so and it is near Japan, did the Egyptians travel to the site and use the site that is underwater as a stone quarry to mine for stone for their temples, etc. before it went underwater- also for other civilizations. Did they have a civlization in the area before moving to Egypt, and other places such as South America, Summeria, Persia, Atlantis, etc.

I have attached a photo from Egypt. Compare to the other photo from underwater ruin near Japan. The 2 pictures show a resemblance which would help show a connection between Egypt to the ancient Jomon civilization that has been submerged below water near Japan. The pictures and other facts such as the previous attached pictures (underwater ruin that slightly resembles a sphinx and the Egypt artifact that is a stone carving that I have described as possible story of a trip to the area which is now an underwater ruin near Japan and what looks like the underwater "sphinx" structure carved into the Egyptian artifact) could help show a connection between what would be the Jomon civilization near Japan and other ancient civilizations.

Information from these websites:


http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niuserre.htm

http://members.toast.net/rjspina/Japan'...ter%20Ruins.htm

For anyone interested in more information about the Jomon connection to ancient civilizations, I found the below:

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?ArticleID=1046

According to the computer generated Ice Age maps, about 25 million square miles of land were submerged by the rising sea-level because of the melting of the Ice Age ice-pack, and much of that land is now the floor of the shallow seas of southern Asia. To the east of India, Ice Age megaliths of the Jomon Civilization are found on the sea-floor between Japan and Taiwan (at Yonaguni, Kerama, Chatan, and more). These stone circles, tiered plazas, and step-pyramids of astronomical measuring significance are found on the sea-floor, as they are on land, thus proving that these buildings were of the same time period.

Are we to believe that these astronomically significant megaliths were built some 12,000 years ago at a time when mainstream earth-chronologists insist that the Ice Age ended and sea level resultantly rose about 100 meters to engulf these megaliths which are evidently and contradictorily of 2000 B.C. vintage? Are we to believe that the Hindu and Tamil recounts of history have been going on for 12,000 years, and that humanity developed no further and built no more for 7,000 years (from 10000 B.C. to 3000 B.C.) until advanced cultures reemerged in Egypt and Sumeria (Babylon)? Such a torturous manipulation of the evidences from the archaeology and the ancient legends is unnecessary with the realization that the Ice Age did in fact end much later than is popularly advertised.

Egypt and Sumeria were building their megaliths when the Indus, Tamil, and Jomon people were building theirs during the Ice Age. Heavy water erosion of the limestone walls in the Sphinx quarry and of the non-coated limestone pyramids evidence the heavy rainfall of the Ice Age climate in the middle latitudes around 2000 B.C., and submerged megaliths in the Mediterranean off the coast of Egypt at Sidi Gaber and Kinessa, off the coast of Lebanon at Yarmuta and Sidon, off Malta at Sliema, and at other locations known (and yet to be discovered), these all corroborate the end-of-the-Ice Age inundation of vast tracts of land with their megaliths of 2000 B.C. form and function.

The tiered plazas and ramps of the submerged Jomon megaliths of offshore Japan bear a notable resemblance to the pre-Incan megaliths of the Gateway to the Sun at Tiahuanaco in Bolivia, and ancient Jomon pottery has been found in Peru, so it seems that the Jomon were navigators and astronomers who also settled in the New World during the Ice Age. The ancient Olmecs of Central America had a legend that they came from across the eastern sea, and the onshore megalithic statues of the Olmecs depict their African facial features, and their language closely resembles that of the Mande of Africa who speak a Lybyco-Berber tongue. The Toltecs and Mayans who sprang from the Olmecs built pyramids with astronomical orientations reflective of these peoples’ deep knowledge about the precession of the stars, so it seems that they also were astro-navigators who sailed the seas around 2000 B.C.


The ancient history book Popol Vue of the Olmec-descended Mayans recalls the time when their seafaring ancient ancestors arrived from the east because of their sophisticated navigational skills as they "studied and measured the round face of the earth and the arch of the sky" in a time of "constant twilight" and "black rain." The obviously heavy volcanic ash content of this rain and the dense cloud-cover from which this rain came that blocked the sun to cause "constant twilight" shows that the Mayan ancestors arrived during the Ice Age. Heavy volcanism during the Ice Age is confirmed by the large concentrations of ash within the polar ice-packs. And lithic pictures on the Gateway to the Sun in Bolivia show South American Ice Age animals like the toxodon, the elephant, and the three-toed horse, therefore, for many reasons, we can safely say that much of the world was populated by sophisticated engineers and navigators during the Ice Age, while the oceans were cooling, as evidenced by the decreasing O18 isotope concentrations with depth in the polar ice-packs.

This post has been edited by tye: Jun 19 2008, 10:31 PM

Attached is Egyptian sphinx that to me looks Japanese. Also an Egyptian pharaoh (Seti 2 )that has a slight Japanese look. Today there does not seem to be any strong relationship between Japan and Egypt. Thousands of years ago, it looks like things were different.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seti2.htm

This post has been edited by tye: Jun 19 2008, 10:57 PM

Tye, for the record: I live in Japan, and have lived here more than 10 years. The upper photograph of the pharaoh looks pretty typically Egyptian to me (archaeology was one of many things I studied in university, and I've read extensively since university, if it matters). The lower one, the Sphinx, on the other hand, is very nice find. I hadn't seen that one before. It looks less Japanese than Chinese, but even so, that's pretty remarkable. I'll attack your other post in a longer post, because I'd like to take it apart thoroughly.

Again, the sphinx is quite cool. Thank you.

Likewise, I can't say 100% that it is NOT from Yonaguni, but I have the feeling that it is not, because my understanding is that there are NO substantial carvings at the Yonaguni site. My understanding is that there are things that MIGHT be petroglyphs, but nothing more than that, whereas your picture is DEFINITELY a carving.



I, too am surprised that there are not more sites dealing with Yonaguni, because even IF it is natural (and I'm by no means convinced that it IS a naturally occurring formation), it is indisputably a magnificent site worthy of being photographed.



I agree that it has sphinx-like aspects, or at least leonine. However, I suspect that this is a carving in the Mediterranean rather than something near Japan. I'm not aware of anything near Japan that looks like this. If you can provide a source link to the photo, that might help in backtracking it, but I strongly suspect it is not a photo of Yonaguni. I'm likewise fairly certain that the Egyptians did NOT travel to Japan as there is absolutely NO corroborating evidence. Weirdly enough, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest the ancient Egyptians MIGHT have visited Brazil. Another problem is that you're talking, in the same sentence about Egypt, South America, Sumeria, Persia and Atlantis. From where we are, they look pretty close, but in fact, they are vastly separated by, not only geography, but the major empires are separated by pretty extensive periods of time.



Again, I'm not convinced that the first picture is from Japan. Second, the Jomon period covers 14,000 years. Third, although I personally would like to think that the megaliths are man-made, it hasn't been established yet, and even if your first picture WERE from near Japan (though I doubt that it is), it would not necessarily mean that Egyptians had any contact.



Not sure what you're getting at in the tour Egypt link: carved stones are not unique to Egypt.
Your second link is dead.
Your final link has little to do with the Jomon, and even less to do with science. Sorry to be harsh, but it is not accurate, and it would take a very long post indeed to go through why it's completely wrong on many, many levels.



Sources? I'm not aware of the Jomon building step-pyramids or having knowledge of astronomy.



Sorry, but I'm not convinced that evidence is being manipulated. What would be the motive?



Again, sources?



While it's possibly, in my mind and despite the words of the experts, that Yonaguni MIGHT be man-made, I think we have to hold to possibility that it might be natural, as hard as that is to believe.

Second, I'm not aware of ANY Jomon pottery found in Peru, I'm not aware of ANY evidence of Jomon crossing the ocean, or being astronomers, or settling in the New World. That said, if the Jomon peoples are related to the first asians who crossed in the Americas and because Native Americans, then likely they crossed by land rather than by sea. This IS possible.

Likewise, I studied the Olmecs, among others, and I don't recall any Olmec legends of coming across the sea. There is also no evidence that Toltecs and Mayans inherited astronomy from the Olmecs, nor that the Olmecs were 'astro-navigators who sailed the seas around 2000 BC.




Again, sources?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popol_Vuh

Again, I'm not aware of Olmec myths of coming from the sea, but Olmec history is not my forte, so I could easily be wrong.

My analysis is a bit harsh, and I'm sorry, but I feel ... uncertain ... about some of the things here.

One might suppose that the architect, who drew the layout of the funerary complex of Kh‛jf-R‛ (Khafre), in the Giza Plateau, had the idea to carve an “image” from a natural rock, below the level where the ramp leading to the king’s pyramid was built. When the workers finished carving the rock mass into the human-faced lion, they make it look like the King-Pharaoh and recognized it as Ḥr-m-3ḫt – that is Horus (rising) in the horizon. Then this natural formation was called P3-Sḫn-‛nḫ - the powerful living image – which translated in Greek gave us “sphinx”. In other words, the light, coming from the bowels of the Earth, incarnated itself into the face of Pharaoh, wearing on his head the nms, a kind of head cloth worn to hide a wig.

By the way, to my own knowledge, Khafre was not of Japanese origin, but who knows? lol

Eldest son of Merenptah, Wsr-ḫprw-R‛ (Seti II, or Sethi-Merenptah), immediately succeeded his father after a four-year period that is still a historical mystery. During this short period power was taken by Amenmeses, a usurper who claimed the kingship and acquired recognition in Upper Egypt. Whether it was a plot, a dynastic intrigue between two branches of Ramses II’s family, an adventurous gamble of a Theban vizier, or a rebellion, history is mute on that point. Fact is Seti II retook the throne and reigned for another 6 years. Upon his death, Seti II was succeeded by Siptah, who in turn was succeeded by Seti II's widow, Queen Tausert. But the troubled times went on, and the Pharaonic power (ideally embodied by his grandfather) was again undermined by prolonged, and bitter rivalry among dynastic members.

Again, I doubt Seti II was of Japanese descent. In dubio pro reo – so let’s take a wait-and-see attitude…

Allison, you replied that it is not clear if Seti II was Japanese. Since we were not there in ancient times, we have to assume some information which could be true and then might not be. So we might never know. It is something to wonder about.

I have attached 2 pictures- one of the entrance to the pyramid (could be a drawing?), the other is the interior of passagway leading to the king's chamber and queen's chamber. After looking at the information on the underwater ruins near Japan, it makes me wonder if the underwater ruins is the place were the stone for the interior of the great pyramid or other pyramids came from.

Someone who is expert could check the type of stone that was used to contruct the pyramids and compare with the underwater ruins near Japan. I found information on a website about the underwater ruins: All the monuments appear to have been built from a granitic sandstone

If the stone is the same type of stone, some questions or answers might come up such as when the ice age ended and when the area near Japan submerged. If you compare the time of when the area submerged with the time that the pyramids were constructed, you might come up with new ideas.
We could also find out more about the Jomon civilization or at least what was happening near the end of that civlization.

What I do not understand is how they could have cut the rock that is from the underwater ruins. Also how they cut and carved stone temples such as the ones in India, Angkor Wat, Petra and other ancient sites. What type of tools did they have? The tools would dull if you are cutting stone. They overcame a huge obstacle on a large scale without the use of more modern tools and equipment.

Information from website:http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_ruinas_yonaguni_3.htm

The locations vary at depths from 100 to only 20 feet, but are all stylistically linked, despite the great variety of their architectural details. They comprise paved streets and crossroads, huge altar-like formations, grand staircases leading to broad plazas and processional ways surmounted by pairs of towering features resembling pylons. The sunken buildings are known to cover the ocean bottom (although not continuously) from the small island of Yonaguni in the southwest to Okinawa and its neighboring islands, Kerama and Aguni, some 311 miles. If, after all, ongoing exploration here does indeed reveal more structures linking Yonaguni with Okinawa, the individual sites may be separate components of a huge city lying at the bottom of the Pacific. The single largest structure so far discovered lies near the eastern shore of Yonaguni at 100 feet down. It is approximately 240 feet long, 90 feet across and 45 feet high.

All the monuments appear to have been built from a granitic sandstone, although no internal passages or chambers have been found. To a degree, the underwater structures resemble ancient buildings on Okinawa itself, such as Nakagusuku Castle. More of a ceremonial edifice than a military installation, Nakagusuku dates back to the early centuries of the first millennium B.C., although its identity as a religious habitation site is older still. Its builders and the culture it originally expressed are unknown, although the precinct is still regarded with a superstitious awe by local Okinawans.

Other parallels with Okinawa's oldest sacred buildings are found near Noro, where burial vaults designed in the same rectilinear style are still venerated as repositories for the islanders' ancestral dead. Very remarkably, the Okinawan term for these vaults is moai, the same word Polynesians of Easter Island, more than 6,000 miles away, used to describe the famous, large-headed, long-eared statues dedicated to their ancestors!

Possible connections far across the Pacific may be more than philological. Some of the sunken features bear even closer comparison to heiau found in the distant Hawaiian Islands. These are linear temples of long stone ramparts leading to great staircases surmounted by broad plazas, where wooden shrines and carved idols were placed. Many heiau still exist and continue to be venerated by native Hawaiians. In terms of construction, the Okinawan examples comprise enormous, single blocks, while the heiau are made up of far more numerous, smaller stones. They were first built, according to Hawaiian tradition, by the Menehune, a red-haired race of master masons who occupied the islands long before the arrival of the Polynesians. The original inhabitants left, unwilling to intermarry with the newcomers.

Okinawa's drowned structures find possible counterparts at the eastern limits of the Pacific Ocean, along Peruvian coasts. The most striking similarities occur at ancient Pachacamac, a sprawling religious city a few miles south of the modern capital at Lima. Although functioning into Inca times, as late as the sixteenth century, it pre-dated the Incas by at least 1,500 years and was the seat of South America's foremost oracle. Pilgrims visited Pachacamac from all over the Tiawantisuyu, the Inca Empire, until it was sacked and desecrated by the Spaniards under Francisco Pizarro's high-spirited brother, Hernando, with 22 heavily armed conquistadors. Enough of the sun-dried, mud-brick city remains, with its sweeping staircases and broad plazas, to suggest parallels with the sunken buildings around Okinawa.

Two other pre-Inca sites in the north, just outside Trujillo, likewise share some leading elements in common with the overseas, undersea structures. The so-called Temple of the Sun is a terraced pyramid built 2,000 years ago by a people known as the Moche. More than 100 feet high and 684 feet long, the irregularly stepped platform of unfired adobe bricks was formerly the colossal centerpiece of a city sheltering 30,000 inhabitants. Its resemblance to the structure found at Yonaguni is remarkable.

On the other side of the Pacific, the first emperor of Japan was remembered as Jimmu, whose immediate descendant was Kamu, among the legendary founders of Japanese society. Another ancestral emperor was Temmu, who was said to have committed to memory the Kojiki (Records of Ancient Matters) and the Nihongi (Chronicles of Japan). In northern Japan runs a river deemed sacred because it carried the first semi-divine beings into the country; it is called the Mu River. In Japanese, the word mu means, that which does not exist or no longer exists, just as it does in Korean. Does it harkens back to a land that no longer exists?
A provocative architectural theme linking South America to Japan through Polynesia and suggesting a lost intermediary culture is the sacred gate. The aesthetic focus of Tiahuanaco (see our Section "Tiahuanaco"), a great ceremonial city high in Bolivia's Andes near Lake Titicaca, is two ritual gates. One above the sunken court at the entrance dramatically frames the 12-foot-tall statue of a god or man, while the other, at the far end of the complex, is the famous Gateway of the Sun, oriented to various solar phenomena.




This post has been edited by tye: Jun 20 2008, 01:17 PM

Vis cómica. Seti II was not in any way of Japanese descent. But… let’s wait for a document that proves otherwise (the wait might take a very long time, I’m afraid).

Tye, why would the Egyptians take stone from Japan? There are many better sources of stone. To transport it from Japan to Egypt would be sheer lunacy. Likewise, that period of history is not undocumented, and there is NO documented record of Egypt having the naval power necessary to take stone blocks from Japan. You do realize, don't you, that historically (and despite my crack about the Egyptians visiting Brazil) the Egyptians did not cross the Mediterranean even. They sailed along the shore. Does that indicate the level of their nautical sophistication? Even if they had an C130, why would they take blocks from Japan?

Also, where's Castle-Bravo. I need him. Aren't sandstone and granite completely different?

As for Yonaguni: it's possible that NOTHING was cut there. It's possible it was a natural phenomenon that caused the stone to fracture along regular points.

Also, when you say Yonaguni looks like a gusuku: have you seen a picture of a gusuku? I fail to see the resemblance.

Now, it's sorta pointless to me to keep going through and telling you you're wrong: but you're comparing cultures and structures that have nothing to compare. You're talking about Japan, but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

I've lived in Japan for 10 years.

I'm not aware of this MU river you're talking about. Could you please give me some sources or links?

Please be careful about where you get your information. People on some websites tend to just make stuff up.

Allison: you're completely awesome! I love these history lessons!

Thanks again Kirin – I really appreciate it.

Well, I need to say a few words; and sorry if it's a bit off-topic. I’m trying, to the best of my ability (English is not my mother tongue; my mother tongues being Hebrew first and French second), not to make my posts look “pedantic”. Pedantry is not my goal at all! If you think I’m pedantic, please tell me so, and I will stop these “lessons” in Egyptology. As a matter of fact, I don’t consider them as “lessons”, I view them as clarifications only. So please everybody - I’m repeating myself I know lol – tell me what I should or should not do.

Best regards,
Allison

Stop your clarifications and I will be dissapointed.

Please continue. Never stop.