Corn makes Ethanol, Ethanol makes Fuel. Should we use it or should we not????????????

I use the E-85 because it saves me money.
I take a 6-7mpg cut in economy but I still come out ahead.
1994 Ford Aspire, regular gas 42mpg...8-9 cents per mile to run based on $3.539. E-85, 33mpg 7-7.5 cents per mile to run at $2.619.
If it honestly saves you money and you are not financially secure...why not use it?

Oil comes out the ground. Oil makes fuel. Should we use it or not?

last i checked we are using it, and running out of the stuff

ethanol is reproducible, oil is not.



This post has been edited by jman88: May 8 2008, 06:51 PM

I think Master Vic's point (one I've heard on CNN) is that ethanol may be driving up food prices and leading to food shortages. However, I've also heard that this is just hysteria. Food prices are going up because of fuel shortages, in which case more fuel (ethanol) might bring the price down. Also, I think the problem is not food availability but distribution. Many people have pointed out that farmers are producing more and more 'ethanol' crops as opposed to 'food' crops, but I also remember 20 years ago, when farmers were going out of business. Does ethanol support farmers? Probably.

Personally, I don't believe that ethanol is contributing to the food crisis.

The third world goes hungry so we can drive to work.

That is over dramatic and not very truthful.

i beg to differ,not every country can afford to be rich,those that are poor stay that way,or advance slowly.The western world suddenly becomes enviromentally aware as countries such as india,china start using more fossil fuels,and imposes new enviromental condtions that only rich countries can meet.So the poorer countries produce ethanol as the the cost of oil rises.America and Europe are aware and concerned at the rapid growth of the asian market,they have to increase the price of fuel to try and limit the damage.Causing instability in the middle east helps increase the cost of fuel.if every man on the planet had ten million pounds,how much would a packet of crisps(potato chips) cost?

So yes,we live in relative comfort at the exspense of poorer nations.

The problems in third world countries is primarily their government. Not our driving to work.

wrong again,third world countries are created by a capitalist infrastructure,which was created off the back of slavery.How great our civilisation,what wonders we have achieved.Do we only intervene when there is oil or strategic importance,or through our sense of humanity.How many people have died because of poverty....?This crisis is to suspend or slow the growth of pooorer countries.

In this world one man can be rich,while thousands struggle to just survive each day.

Which goes back to government and their leadership.
There is a rich side to Ethiopia too, as in many of those countries. These governments and the rich within could do much to helping the lesser fortunate of their fellow countrymen...but do they? Same for this country here the USA. We have homeless and hungry here too. When was the last time you heard the rich reach out and help the homeless? No, they give to charities many that have rich presidents that suck up much of the donations with their high salaries.
The problems with many of these countries could be greatly improved if the people whithin them, that have the power and money cared enough.

Taking farm land away just to grow corn for ethanol, wouldn't that create a food shortage and in return help raise the cost for food? Seems like we would be shooting ourselves in foot twice, since ethanol has been proven to be very corrosive to the gas combustion engine.

Building more coal plants and turning coal into a liquid fuel is by far a better solution, I read somewhere the state of Montanna is already doing that and it's way cheaper.

that is only part of the problem,most of those in power have been put in place by the west,those undesirable are removed(ie Saddam,sadat,kennedy etc.)some are placed in power, musharaf of pakistan,sarkozy,gordon brown,mugabe.you have to keep the poor so you can have the rich.The world is corrupt in the circle of power.the many,keeeping the few in their ivory towers.america and the west only act on these rogue nations when there is a financial incentive.America failed to act quickly enough in New Orleans..why?cos the poorest areas were the worst affected,how much has been rebuilt?how many have returned.there would be no rich,without the poor.

This topic is by far the most scary thing I can possibly think of. Forget 2012, asteroids etc. Today crude oil hit $135 US a barrel. It was $66 this time last year. And only in January this year did crude breach the $100 mark. I can't help it but I am honestly getting axious about the consequences of this that seem to be looming in the VERY NEAR FUTURE not a decade away. As the original post asks Ethanol will likely be used more to combat this oil shortage. Judging on the recent jumps in value, (talks are now it will be over $200 in 2-3 months time) I can't see ethanol as having a significant impact on consumer value, yet the 3rd world will suffer due to crops that were once used to feed them now used to get us to the supermarket.
Here in Australia the difference between E10 and normal unleaded fuel is a mere 3c a litre. As we are now paying $1.60 with it likely to be $2.20 in the coming months what the hell is 3c?
Im sorry but I am honestly worried to death about this. Not for my own financial worries (im going back to the train for work, even though it means an hour walk from the station to work) but for the world we live in. I am sorry I now feel I won't be able to bring my children (ok they dont exist yet!) in a safe world.
Sorry for venting but i have never felt so anxious and stressed over something i have no control over.

I hope this passes. I dont feel that it will though.

Sorry for the uber-depressing post

i can understand your worries,but don't make youreslf ill over it.this normally get worse before they get better and people power will pull us through.The sooner we realise that this fuel situation is to slow the progression of the asian nations which are now becoming a major player in the global markets thus affecting the selling power of the US and Europe,the sooner a solution will be found.

Exacly, krin-rex

Lets say the farmers on the right hand side of the street grows Corn and that Corn makes Ethanol, but on the left hand side the farmer grows Tomatoes . At the end of the year the two farmers compare the money they have made this year. The farmer that grows Corn apparentaly invested more money that the farmer that grows Tomatoes. So the next year, the farmer that grows tomatoes stats growing Corn since he will make more money. Thus, most neighboring farmers might choose to grow corn instead of other vegitables. So Chicken eats corn so chicken products go up because of corn; most Tomatoes, carrots, ext. turn into corn, also remember- supply dosn't = demand.

the rising cost of fuel is caused by increased demand from china,india and other developing crisis.the amout of oil in the earth is limited,so as supplies become more scarce,so the prices rises.This will cause a war,mark my words.The only problem with ethanol is that you are using fields meant for food,for feul to run your cars.Our weather globally has damaged crop production drastically also increasing costs.the recent floods in america's bread basket are a good example,with the missisippi bursting its banks due to rainwater.England has had poor crop production in some area's due to flooding.Also our livestock has been affected in the recent past by Bird Flu,Foot and Mouth and Blue Tongue.The next war won't be about saving your country..it will be fighting for the basics of survival.

yep......

America and Australia probably have excess farming capacity which could be used for growing ethanol. But the amount of ethanol they can produce is not a significant fraction of their fuel use. The industrialized nations should have been producing a new generation of nuclear power stations years ago, but they held off because of anti-nuclear hysteria and self-destructively pursued other means of generating power. Nuclear power stations now would increase the viability of electric vehicles.

Amazing! In this whole thread we seem to think exactly along the same line. (We probably read the same information and have a similar set of moralities for interpretations). Let's see if this continues with my attribution:

In the seventies BMW was already experimenting with engines on hydrogen. They had a small model from their 2000 range running on it. Then we heard more and more, which was very positive. And then... kind of died in silence. There were more inventors with bright ideas we never heared from again. The problem lies with "free energy". The "Manipulators" (whoever that are) get their foot in poor governments doors, in rich governments doors. They walk the walk and talk the talk, it's a simple salespitch, but it works since the Romans...

They learned from history how to manipulate people, but they did not learn from history what really happens, what really matters and how to really make "heaven on earth" for everybody. They do not want to share, only take, like small children without any guidance.

I expect the oilprices to up within the next years to a level of 5 (something) per litre, because the forces pitching these prices are psychological determined for maximisation. Too much at any moment and the result will be revolt. Taking BABYSTEPS will raise and raise the price, untill

OUT OF THE BLUE

we have hydrogen engines. But in the meantime some friends in governments, together with their friends in the oilindustry, have secured their UBER wealth and with that their UBER power "for ever". They saw what the Rothschilds and others did, how they did it, and knew "we can do that too", we want it, we can get it, so we'll get it. No matter what.

And in that last frase lies the stupidity. Because, there is enough energy, food, water etc. for the whole world to live in comfort. Therefore, for your children, there could be a future without threats, without fear. If I could choose to share my "wealth" and with that making everybody around happy, thoughtfull etc. I would choose to do so. In fact I already did, but it does not work to do that on your own, you attract all kinds of vultures (of the first kind). Helas our governments, with a few leading the rest of the pack, do not share that vision and keep defending their chosen path, at any cost, at any cost. Because,.... they can.*

So where does this leave the ETHANOL? I expect it to grow in popularity in the near future because a large amount of the "modern civilisation" (whatever that may be) has learned not to care but about their pitty selves. We will have to wait untill the oilboys have come up with a new scheme to make you pay for "free energy" at a pump. We are conditioned for generations (!) to pay at the pump, so that's where the golden eggs are, no matter ethanol, no matter water etc. On the bright side: they also know how to keep/make/condition us happy, and will continue to do so. Again, the Romans had it all figured out, all the boys think they have to do is put that blueprint on our societies. Let's see what happens.

Cheers, John.

*Unless, there are motives that I do not have a clue of.

This post has been edited by skylurker: Jun 20 2008, 03:25 PM