I did some research today, and came across this case, it’s quite interesting.

On August 15, 1950 in Great Falls, Montana, Nicolas Mariana who was the general manager of the Great Falls “Selectrics” baseball team spotted two UFOs, which appeared as bright circular points of light. He managed to film the objects and obtained 16mm color movies of the objects. The footage of the UFOs at closer range, confirmed visual observation of discs with rotating rims, was reported missing from the film when it was returned by the Air Force. The remaining footage was contained in the United Artists documentary move “UFO” and it was compared to the July 2, 1952 Trementon, Utah UFO film, the films showed similar images. Mariana used Daylight Kodachrome film in a Revere turret type camera, he obtained 315 frames of the UFOs. The film was examined by the Air Force and Navy, but no formal reports released. A report on Photogrammetric analysis which was by Dr. Robert M.L. Baker, Jr., and Douglas Aircraft Corporation is on file at NICAP. The Air Force explanation was that the UFOs were reflections of jet aircraft, and was said to be “quite strained,” but the analyst states no definite conclusion. However, the UFOs could not be explained as any conventional objects. The evidence strongly suggests that what Mr. Mariana has told us for a long time is true. Much of the early footage was apparently removed by the Air Force. There is a TNT version of the footage of the UFOs, and it shows that the objects were clearly visible and also were oval-shaped in the early footage which the Air Force removed.

Down below is an attached photo of the UFO, and I also put the link to the video where you can view it, it is not as long as the original film filmed by Mariana, but that is because the Air Force removed much of the early footage in the film.

Video of UFO- http://www.nicap.org/images/montana.mpeg

Sorry, I did not get the poll to get on here, I had checked the poll option, and created the new thread, but right when I hit it, my computer would not let the screen come up where I create the poll choices, causing this to have no poll. Please tell me what you think this object is. A UFO, ULFO, OTO, or a UAP, thank you.

This is some realy good footage considering how long ago it was taken. I would realy like to see the unedited video though.

I have no idea what they could be so i think that it is a UFO.

Nice video! Don't know what to make of it though. The fact that the dots stay in unison would suggest its one object, but who knows :confused: .

I remember seeing this film back in the mid 60s when my Boy Scout troop saw the 1956 documentary film, UFO (yes, I'm that old!). I remember being impressed at the time but all you really have here is a pair of light sources moving in tandem, at speed, in a straight line. There's nothing there (even by 1950's standards) that really jumps out as anomalous.

I had not heard that there was missing footage from this sighting. As I recall, the original film (as shown in the documentary) seemed fairly complete, showing the objects moving quickly across the cinematographers field of view. The good thing about it is that, back in 1950, few people outside of Hollywood had the ability to doctor up motion picture film. That leads me to believe these are genuine objects. However, unless the alleged missing close-up footage turns up, there's no real reason to believe that the objects are anything but conventional aircraft.

S

I agree with alienationsam, I think this is a genuine UFO. This footage is really good, and especially that it was filmed in the 1950s, as what Triple H said. The best part of the original film was the early footage, and was very good evidence, thats apparently why the Air Force removed it when the film was returned.

I remember when that film was taken.I lived in Missoula Montana (yes,I too am that old, Ancient as my granddaughter says) and my grandfather knew Nick and were good friends. (Even though we were fans of the Missoula Lumberjacks.) Both my grandfather and Nick swore that the UFO's were real and even I, at eleven years old, became a believer. I have since then,because of a personal experience, become convinced that we are not alone in this universe.

rhoward - I imagine these folks are long since deceased but did Nick ever say to you or your grandfather that any film footage was confiscated or turned up missing? You may be the closest thing to a primary source we will ever have on this case.

S

Interesting. nice video, thanx for sharing.

LOL... It is a nice feeling knowing I am not the oldest person on this site .

I have seen this footage (I think I seen it around the early 70s-ish) If my memory is correct (and it might not be.. ) it was reported the objects where spinning, and travelling around 1000 + mph yet no sonic boom was heard, some scientists said they where meteors/asteroids others ball lightening but no one ever said they where planes...IMHO I think they are true UFOs that have never been explained away....Excellent video :thumbsup:

Found a book reference that says that in 1952, the Air Force asked Mariana for the film for a second time. They had already borrowed it for analysis in 1950.

When he got it back, Mariana said that 35 of the best frames were missing--the ones that "best showed the objects to be disc shaped " (Dolan, 2002, pp.85-86).

The Air Force said they had removed "...a single, damaged frame".

The text mentions some quirks in Mariana's story. Author claims he had the date of the sighting wrong when he first talked to the Air Force, for example.

I get to go to Montana in 2 weeks (going to see Glacier National Park--yippee!!) and I will be in Great Falls for at least a day (I 've read that the largest freshwater spring in the US is there--7 million gallons a day or some other amazing amount, pouring into the Columbia River--a real Native Am. sacred site!!!!). I'm gonna check local museum, tour guidebooks, etc., see if there is any mention of this famous sighting readily apparent in Great Falls today.

You guys aren't old...you're MY age!

Wonder where the original film is now? Surely, if there was missing footage, there would be a splice or a visible jump cut somewhere (unless, of course, it was on the very beginning or end of the film). Regardless, I am curious to know how it was Mariana determined that exactly 35 frames of film was missing. Unless you have a full-length copy with which to compare it, it would be impossible to know. I've seen enough 16mm film stock to know that individual frames are not numbered in any way. Hmmmm...

S

I wondered that, too. He (or someone) would have had to have counted the frames and known how many there were.

Can that be done, just by holding up the film and looking at it?

It would be a painstaking process but you could count all the individual frames. Still, that would have required some foresight on his part, as though he wasn't expecting to get the whole film back. Unfortunately rhoward hasn't posted since this thread started back in February. As noted, he may have had the closest thing we have to a direct connection to the film. He might have been able to answer some of these questions.

S

Thanks for the info.

It was great to have rhoward here to tell about that. Hope r. will return.

Also, why would Mariana be mistaken about the date of the sighting? One would think a sighting like that would be unforgettable.

I see what you are saying. Problems ringing true.

Still, the film exists. How could that have been faked, back then?

History check:
Korean War for USA began , June 1950--(perhaps war jitters make people suspicious of attack from the skies, more likely to misidentify things? It's something that has been discussed in UFO studies before)

Dolan (2002) writes that there were some other UFO sightings in June-August 1950 ("good quality" ones w/ multiple witnesses near Los Angeles & Hanford Nuclear Facility). Also, the green fireball sightings (Alamagordo and White Sands included) were continuing in New Mexico at this time.

An Engineer friend of mine looked at the footage a while back with me and concluded that they were not jet aircraft or birds...Ive always been impressed by them and so was Allen Hynek...

This was the secret footage they talked about in the news at the time and which Allen Hynek said that they went out of thier way to debunk this one...

Engineer or not, I think it would be speculative at best to rule out military aircraft. Here's a frame of the film from the NICAP website:



Now I haven't studied the entire film, frame-for-frame, up close. It looks to me, however, that you have a pair of light sources that are really too distant to resolve much detail. There's absolutely nothing visually here that would preclude a pair of F-86s. The flight path is straight and predictable as well so there's nothing otherworldly about that.

The film is certainly interesting but, without the alleged frames that show the objects as definitely disk-shaped, it's not nearly as compelling as it could be.

S

Bad boys from the 50s, wow.

Bright as lightning circles moving in a straight line.

How can they see outside.

I.M.O. it's just aircraft