That is my question, what do people have to gain, by stating they have been abducted and or seen ufo's?

I am sensitive to the spirit realm, they jokenly call my home the "Boo & Breakfast for spirits"

I have been teased, tormented & ridiculed my entire life about my abilities.

Can you tell me why, a person would make up a sighting or an abduction.

Probably for attention or they like seeing people believe it so they can laugh at them.

Some people must have such a dull life that they have to resort to trickery and hoaxes for fun.


Sometimes it`s just to make money.

People make false claims for many reasons but they all have one thing in common. STABILITY. They fear that under the SSDD (same shit different day) mentality they will come out on top. So when someone makes a claim such as being abducted the only gain wether its real or not is STABILITY. And when someone responds to such claims they nuture the STABILITY of the claime or better yet the ABILITY to STAB on ones claim is to nuture it as well...hehe gotta love the english lang for its nack of reversing and dicing...hehe its what lawyars get paid to do as well.

peace,
Austin

PS. TO: Ghostly
Next time somemone makes a STAB at your ABILITIES dont let your STABILITY falter. Nor, should you STAB back for your TIES with ABILITIES may be STABBED and that would be bad

pss. LOL for the foolishness below

i think people post their stories to get more informaton and learn more about whatever happened

to see if others can relate

but as for people making false claims then, i dunno they just want attention mayby?

i can beleive alot of peoples stories on this board

except for the ones claiming they come from space or are an alien :smokin:

A person who feels lonely, unimportant, does not like their lot in life or their looks or what they have done with their life, a person who does not feel they are making meaningful progress with their life, someone who feels their job is boring and mundane and know one respects them, someone angry, someone feeling out of control, anyone with these kinds of situations, may feel compelled to create a story like this because it gives them a special status-they can be part of a specific group who share the same experience- so in effect they are reaching out to a community they perceive will accept them and not ridicule and reject them and accept them as one of their own.

In a nutshell some people make up these stories to connect with other humans. In the past we did it with community, neighbourhood and religious organizations - today the vast majority of us have no connections to each other through such networks - so being part of a group any group, is an attempt to reconnect and feel less alone.

The above is an explanation for why some people would create these stories and its based on a very basic sociological principle that assumes people by nature are social creatures and crave interaction. Its only one possible explanation and its certainly not meant to generalize.

There are a group of people who are in fact pathological liars. They lie about everything. This is caused by a personality development defect. Psychiatry doesn't really know too much for sure about pathological liars. Some are shaped that way from traumatic experiences, others it would seem may have a gene that predisposes them to this trait, and it could be a lack of seratonin of other chemicals in the brain or a malfunction to neurotransmitters, a small lesion or scar, and damage to certain sectors of the brain from drugs, alcohol or perhaps an illness can bring it on. There is speculation as to whether some of it relates to hormonal imbalance etc.

We know for example people with manic depression in a manic phase can go off on creative tangents that really contain many lies. Pschiatry calls them dillusions. We see for example with schitzophrenics with the kind of schitzophrenia that induces paranoid thoughts, that they can have multiple thoughts of conspiracies and things happening.

Again with these kinds of people, making up such stories may be as a result of a mental defect beyond their control.

Finally there are just some people out there who like to pull people's strings and upset them. They derive a pleasure in thinking they are smarter then the people reading their stories and think its a hoot hoaxing people. Its a form of passive aggression. Usually hoaxers are the kind of people that don't feel confident in themselves, so they have to over-compensate and express themselves indirectly. They feel like they have power when they think they have put one over on someone.

So the above are 3 possible explanations for you, but that is all they are.

Just curious Rube... are you a trained professional/doctor of psychology. Everything I have read concerning the mind,that you have posted is interesting.

I agree with rube on all parts. There are individuals that have questionable motives, and that is a regular occurrence. But can one apply this theory to every single abductee? That means every single abductee is either a pathological liar, delusional, or mentally ill. But I guess that makes sense.

Henseforth, we shall label every single person in this forum that has had an experience mentally ill. Drop the abductee forum entirely so we do not fuel these guy's ridiculous stories.

Period; end of story.

I have a Master's in Applied Psychology with two years post grad clinical training in mediation, crisis intervention and criminal profiling but I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist and just express personal opinions.

If you read what I wrote I was careful not to generalize and only offer possible explanations. I have no monopoly on the truth and would never suggest I can say whether someone is genuine or not by reading their posts.

I don't believe in lie detector tests either. I think to analyze what someone is saying and get to the bottom of it takes a lot of time and careful inquiry and analysis which we do not have the luxury of doing on these posts.

On the other hand I do suspect some people who have written in are young people who may be manifesting first stages of mental illnesses that only exhibit themselves in people's early 20's. That is a personal opinion I keep to myself and would never impose on anyone, I simply suspect it sometimes because for me there are recognizable traits in the writing styles of obsessive compulsives, manic depressives and schitzophrenics that for me sometimes match what I am reading but I am the first to admit I could be completely full of shit and wrong so I would never go the next step and assume anything or label anyone.

I believe too that there is a "follow" mentality, where people feel like they need to jump on the band wagon. Kind of like the snowball effect, if you will, where a few people, whether mentally ill, dillusional, or having a spirtual encounter, tell their stories and then in an attempt to relate, or be part, others jump in and the whole entire thing has snowballed out of control. I have read articles, as probably many of us have, where the whole UFO and alien phenomena aren't even related... it is pretty interesting and makes perfect sense to me, how the human mind tries to find correlations between events in order to rationalize. Rube, do you have any insight on this? Anyone else?

There have been indeed strange phenomena that people wish to associate themselves with. You see it every day and one funny instance in particular was a feature on MSN video where a claimed “vampire” is planning on running for Governor of Minnesota who stated he feeds off human blood. (aired January 17, 2005)

And thank you, rube, for your reply. While I fully agree to there are many individuals who enjoy making up stories for one reason or another, I do believe that there are a few individuals who are credible and did not wish to be any part of the paranormal phenomenon, but ended up being involved in some way or another not by choice.

Its good to have a healthy skepticism about these things, but personally it has been a bit frustrating that no concrete evidence has been put forth. A good insight into this situation is that we only need one very convincing and fully unveiled case for all to see of all the millions of cases to create a paradigm in people’s opinions.

... it grows increasingly evident that there isn't one, and every new "fake" just makes our skeptism grow.

And then there are people who are telling the truth. If you make this Forum too hostile to abductees they will stop coming here and giving their accounts. Then you will lose an opportunity to learn about the phenomenon. Leave a door open to the possibility that they are telling the truth that's all I'm saying.


Check this out before you throw away the possibility of UFOs visiting this Planet:-

Major Gordon Cooper
One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar.
Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which
was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters
were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting.Major Cooper was a firm believer in UFOs. Ten years earlier, in 1951 he had sighted a UFO while piloting an F-86 Sabrejet over Western Germany. They were metallic, saucer-shaped discs at considerable altitude and could out-maneuver all American fighter planes.Major Cooper also testified before the United Nations:

"I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets... Most astronauts were reluctant to discuss UFOs.""I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation,generally from east to west over Europe."And according to a taped interview by J. L. Ferrando, Major Cooper said:
"For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all
specialists in astronautics. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public.Why? Because authority is afraid that people may think of God knows what kind of horrible invaders. So the password still is: We have to avoid panic by all means.""I was furthermore a witness to an extraordinary phenomenon,here on this planet Earth. It happened a few months ago in Florida. There I saw with my own eyes a defined area of ground being consumed by flames, with four indentions left by a flying object which had descended in the middle of a field. Beings had left the craft (there were other traces to prove this). They seemed to have studied topography, they had collected soil samples and, eventually, they returned to where they had come from, disappearing at enormous speed...I happen to know that authority did just about everything to keep this incident from the press and TV, in fear of a panicky reaction from the public."

Ed White & James McDivitt
In June 1965, astronauts Ed White (first American to walk in space) and
James McDivitt were passing over Hawaii in a Gemini spacecraft when they saw a weird-looking metallic object. The UFO had long arms sticking out of it. McDivitt took pictures with a cine-camera. Those pictures have never been released.

James Lovell and Frank Borman
In December 1965, Gemini astronauts James Lovell and Frank Borman also saw a UFO during their second orbit of their record-breaking 14 day flight.Borman reported that he saw an unidentified spacecraft some
distance from their capsule. Gemini Control, at Cape Kennedy told him that he was seeing the final stage of their own Titan booster rocket. Borman
confirmed that he could see the booster rocket all right, but that he could
also see something completely different.During James Lovell's flight on Gemini 7:

Lovell:BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH.
Capcom: This is Houston. Say again 7.
Lovell:SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH.
Capcom: Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an
actual sighting?
Lovell:WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL SIGHTING.
Capcom: ...Estimated distance or size?
Lovell:WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT...



Neil Armstrong & Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin
According to the NASA Astronaut Neil Armstrong the Aliens have
a base on the Moon and told us in no uncertain terms to get off and stay
off the Moon.According to hitherto un-confirmed reports, both Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I remember hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a crater during the television
transmission, followed by a request from mission control for further
information. Nothing more was heard.According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:

NASA:What's there?
Mission Control calling Apollo 11...
Apollo11:These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!
OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!
I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,
Lined up on the far side of the crater edge!
They're on the Moon watching us!

A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium. Professor:What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11? Armstrong:It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off!(by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city. Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?
Armstrong:I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology — Boy, were they big! ... and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station. Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11? Armstrong:Naturally — NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again.


According to a Dr. Vladimir Azhazha:
"Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two
large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near
the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public —
because NASA censored it."According to a Dr. Aleksandr Kasantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside.Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind the cover-up.

Donald Slayton
Donald Slayton a Mercury astronaut revealed in an interview he
had seen UFOs in 1951:
"I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high."As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk.About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me — and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared."

Major Robert White
On July 17, 1962 Major Robert White reported a UFO during his fifty-eight-mile high flight of an X-15. Major White reported:"I have no idea what it could be. It was grayish in color and about thrity to forty feet away."

Then according to a Time Magazine article, Major White exclaimed over the radio:"There ARE things out there! There absolutely is!"

NASA Pilot Joseph A. Walker
On May 11, 1962 NASA pilot Joseph Walker said that one of his tasks was to detect UFOs during his X-15 flights. He had filmed five or six UFOs during his record breaking fifty-mile-high flight in April, 1962. It was the second time he had filmed UFOs in flight. During a lecture at the Second National Conference on the Peaceful Uses of Space Research in Seattle, Washigton he said:"I don't feel like speculating about them. All I know is what appeared on the film which was developed after the flight." — Joseph Walker To date none of those films has been released to the public for viewing.

Commander Eugene Cernan
Eugene Cernan was commander of Apollo 17. In a Los Angeles Times article in 1973 he said, about UFOs:"...I've been asked (about UFOs) and I've said publicly I thought they (UFOs) were somebody else, some other civilization."

NASA's Maurice Chatelain
In 1979 Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. Chatelain believes that some UFOs may come from our own solar system — specifically Titan."The encounter was common knowledge in NASA, but nobody has talked about it until now.""...all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin — flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence.""I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was the first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus' to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space capsules. However, his announcements were barely noticed by the general public. It was a little different when James Lovell on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from ]behind the moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even though this happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden meaning in those words." The rumors persist. NASA may well be a civilian agency, but many of its programs are funded by the defence budget and most of the astronauts are subject to military security regulations. Apart from the fact that the National Security Agency screens all films and robably radio communications as well. We have the statements by Otto Binder, Dr. Garry Henderson and Maurice Chatelain that the astronauts were under strict orders not to discuss their sightings. And Gordon Cooper has testified to a United Nations committee that one of the astronauts actually witnessed a UFO on the ground. If there is no secrecy, why has this sighting not been made public?

NASA's Scott Carpenter,"At no time, when the astronauts were in space were they alone: there was a constant surveillance by UFOs

blackbeltjoeblackbeltjoe - funny how evidence seems concrete only when it is released publicly for the world to see.

There have been many reported cases of govt. officials testifying to the involvement and first hand experience of Extraterrestrial phenomenon. One prime example is www.disclosureproject.com. But what remains to be seen are the testimonials before the Supreme Court. One could point to 9-11 of hindering the project’s efforts to hold a hearing, though that is speculation at this point.

Get with the program. Very few abductees are ever, ever willing to around and tell anyone of their experiences. No one wants to be ridiculed, thought of as insane, etc. No abductee enjoys being experimented on wondering what happened to them.

Read some of my other posts about abductions and the evidence thereof before drawing any more conclusions that "it just ain't happening". I challenge any and all of you to find an abductee therapy group near you (and there are any number in larger cities), sit in, ask questions, read about those abductions of indiginous indians from the Amazon rainforest, the bushmen of Namibia or the Masaai from Kenya, see their experiences as exactly the same including the surgical scaring, the scoop marks, etc., and then continue with your same conclusions.

Dr. John E. Mack was a huge skeptic at one time. Didn't believe in UFOs, abductions or anything. Anyone experiencing these things he would diagnose as having repressed sexual abuse or some other physical or mental abuse in their lives and that the abduction beliefs were the way these abused people were dealing with it. Then he met Professor Budd Hopkins, met abductees from all walks of life. He listened to their stories, did research with abductee claimants from all over the globe. He became an adamant believer after that. John E. Mack was one of the most respected men in his field in the U.S. or in the world for that matter. He came under a great deal of flack from his peers over his research into the abduction phenomina, but no one could poke any solid holes in that research....no one.

I was not under the impresion Budd Hopkins was a professor. I was under the impression he was a journalist and had taught himself how to administer hypnotherapy. Budd Hopkins has received criticism for not being professionally trained to administer hypnotherapy and perhaps (not necessarily) in his zeal to investigate, may have unintentionally planted false suggestions/memories in his subjects making some/all of his studies suspect. Did he mean well, of course. Were his method of operations questionable, yes. Is he an important person in the UFO movement, yes. I personally believe though he is too personally attached to what he is investigating and I am sure he would be the first to admit that but feel he can stay dettached enough not to let it distort what he reports. Just my opinion. I am not questioning the man's integrity or intentions but I do openly question his methods of hypnotherapy and fact fathering.

In regards to Dr. Mack a psychiatrist who taught at Harvard, the criticism with him wasn't over the concept of whether people should be believed as having been abducted as much as it was criticism of the protocol he used when talking with patients. Some people feel he did not stay sufficiently objectively dettached from what he was listening to and reporting and was tooeager to validate what his patients said as being true without any third party or other objective or coroborative evidence.

The fact is, most of his reports simply repeat what he was told by his patients. He is a very sympathetic and kind man no doubt about it but he has repeated what was told to him and he has to date never ever come out and said he can prove what was told to him. What he has said is he does respect his patients and will not simply dismiss what they are saying as untrue. He has exhibited compassion and sensitivity but I wouldn't say he has been able to prove anything concrete.

That said, information has come not just from someone who says they were abducted but people who have witnessed the abduction and have been able to prove it using third party and objective evidence.

The problem is there are a lot of people who want attention and will make up stories so the genuine ones get overwhelmed by the not so genuine ones.

Like you said, with some of these people there are visible marks ( and yes they could be explained for other reasons..) and dentists and doctors (gynocologists) have found objects that can not be explained, i.e., objects made of unknown metal that seem to grow an attachment to the surrounding skin. Groups have been able to save implants and some have self-destructed when people have tried to examine them.

There also appear to be versions of stories exactly the same where people could not have been influenced by one another or reading something and there are instances where many people have been abducted at the same time and its been corroborated by independent sources spread over many miles.

Something is happening to some people and the proof is there not just subjective proof. For people like us who want to learn, we have to be willing to spend countless hours sifting through bull shit to get to the genuine. We have to be patient and not unintentionally impose our agendas or project the answer we want to see in what we are looking at.

Logic distates that for people who this is happening to, they would feel frightened, confused, isolated and would be petrified to tell anyone - it is not human nature to run to a psychiatrist or anyone and tell them this sort of stuff.

Look how hard it is to get someone to admit they are an alcoholic or have been abused sexually....

I am very very tough on people like Hopkins and Mack or myself or anyone who interviews an abductee victim because we have to have very serious standards to make sure the legitimate stories can not be ridiculed and even more important so we do not traumatize abductees further in our zeal to push and prod them for answers.

I personally believe the safety and well being of a person is paramount and if that means forgoing getting an answer so be it.

I think we need to scrutinize protocols used to examine people and therapy techniques, etc., and I think a lot of stories we hear could have been falsely implanted and/or could be a symptom for something else - but as skeptical and cynical as I am, I also believe something is happening to people that can not be conventionally explained and the mystery is we just do not know if it is a negative or positive thing happening.

I saw an implant taken out of someone's nose and that person disappeared and was petrified and their dentist moved to a small town and he was also petrified, now I can't prove anything but this person claimed she had been abducted pretty much the stories you have heard by some on these posts. Something happened to her. No I can't possibly know what happened to her but she was petrified that I can tell you and no this person was not psychotic, schitzophrenic, manic, anything else. She was just an average person who started getting nose-bleeds and head-aches and wierd dreams. Just an ordinary person like you or me, no agenda, no diseases, no need to prove herself and be believed....all I can tell you was what I have found in my limited research in this area...that the people I have talked with felt sometimes absolutely humiliated and violated and fearful, and some felt as frightening as it was they felt it was needed for a higher purpose.

I just worry about anyone undergoing stress and trauma, period.

I also think there are some very good people out their painstakingly investigating following protocol that obtains objective evidence and does not traumatize their subjects further and its there and it tends to get missed because we have so many other stories some deliebrately planted as misinformation, others simply the product of disturbed or fertile imaginations and others just simply mistaken concepts.

Its funny but in some countries like Mexico and Peru where there are so many UFO sightings, its not such a big deal. I had a friend from Peru and she grew up and said she would see ufo's all the time and to her it was absolutely no big deal. Yet we make a huge deal about it. I guess it depends on your values and what you become acustomed to. I would imagine a rain forest aboriginal would find a modern airplane quite shocking if they never saw one before.

I hope before I die we learn something concrete and I hope all the people who may have been abducted get the anwers they are looking for. Call it naive but I think they will get their answers one way or the other.

Taken,
Your post above is exactly how I feel about my experience with abduction.
We know there are skeptics and people who live to ridicule and why set yourself up for all that negativity? Why would I post my encounter only to have it ripped with the hopes one out of five responses would be supportive?

And I can also agree that being abducted isn't a pleasant experience and you wouldn't brag about it to others. It isn't something you want to tell everyone and talking about it is painful.

As for the ones that make up abductions it's all apart of the plan to keep the skeptics alive and the real encounters silenced.

I wanted to thank you Taken for posting your feelings on this matter.
Jennifer

Budd Hopkins taught at several universities on journalism. Now whether he was a full professor or not I am not sure, but he did teach.

As far as Dr. Mack being too eager in his beliefs. It took him a long time and a lot of dealing with patients before he came to understand the abduction phenomina. It should not be the doctor's that come to determine the cause of problems, it is listening to the patients. To often doctors are so rigid in their own beliefs that anything coming from the outside is absurd to them. Take for example things like acupuncture. 25 years ago acupuncture was considered a version of Chinese voodoo, so to speak. Today we know that acupuncture does indeed work in many, many cases. Herbal medicine was in the same category. Now today doctors themselves are prescribing herbal medicines for many patients because they work.

In the field of Psychiatry and Psychology, it is the same. Too much Freud and not enough patient care. Diagnose with only what they believe they know instead of investigating what might well be the truth. We put too much faith in the standard mold presented by many doctors and not enough faith and time spent with the actual person. We have to find some inner problem with that person or some deep-seeded resentment, or abuse to blame for their condition instead of looking into the possibility that their abductions might just be the real thing.

They believe that it is crazy to believe in UFOs and alien abductions so they have to find another cause which is generally some sexual abuse problem, even when there is absolutely no evidence that the patients experience stems from any sort of abuse. They believe, as some skeptics here do that it can't possibly be true and so they miss the whole point. They miss out on what is really happening to that person and they convince themselves that it doesn't happen in spite of the overwhelming number of people it is happening to worldwide and the equally overwhelming physical evidence that proves it is happening. Ignoring the surgical procedures, the surgical scars, the triangular scars, the "scoop marks" that are in 80% of the abductees.

One could try to make a case of mass psyche problems, but that doesn't explain how tens of thousands of people from the U.S. have the same identical scaring on them as do some bushmen in Namibia, or the Aboriginies of Australia, or the Maasai of Kenya, or the Vietnamese, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Russians, or whatever. You can try to call it a psychological phenomina, but the physical scars are still there and is unexplainable. No one, and I mean no one, has yet to explain the surgeries done that no one can remember happening, especially those indiginous people who do not have hospital facilities withing hundreds of miles from where they have lived. No one can explain away the scoop marks most all carry with them. It's not a genetic mark, it is a physical removal of skin and muscle tissue leaving a scoop or triangular scar on them. Can't be explained no matter how hard one tries.