http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061211/ap_on_...aust_conference

Organizers touted the conference as a scholarly gathering aimed at discussing the Holocaust away from Western taboos, but the 67 participants from 30 countries were predominantly Holocaust deniers. They included David Duke — the former Louisiana state representative and Ku Klux Klan leader — and France's Robert Faurisson and Australian Frederick Toben, who was jailed in Germany in 1999 for questioning the Holocaust.

:laugh:

Sounds like the Word News Weekly. I wonder if they would consult Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler.

Heinrich Himmler never denied the Jews and other undesirables of Nazi Europe were being exterminated.

this is as bad as a modern klansman saying there was no slavery.....or speaking about the Confederacy

:laugh:

But how can the Klan be evil? They take part in the adopt a highway program.

It's sad they are holding a conference of nay sayers. I guess those in Iran are going with the if you repeat a lie enough it will become fact play.

Most folks seem to be missing 'the point' of the conference - it's not just about the 'holocaust' - it's a political point Iran are making in relation to 'freedom of speech' and is directly related to the 'Muhammed cartoons' which caused uproar in the Islamic world - they are trying to show up the fact that if you offend Muslims with 'freedom of speech' then it's ok - but if you offend Jews or the West 'it's not ok'....they are going straight for the jugular of the double standard and hypocrisy....and we can already see how it is working.

Ben

That's exactly right, Ben, and of course the Western media isn't going to mention it, but instead cut the story short and leave the viewer outraged over the idea instead. It's another part of their distortion to highlight Iran as the next "bad guy."

With that said, Iran's leadership is exactly right. There is a monsterous double-standard in regard to freedom of speech, especially in Europe. It's even a crime to publically deny or minimize the Holocaust in nations like Austria, and people have been prosecuted and convicted of expressing their views, however twisted. Not that I question the existence of execution of the Holocaust itself, why is the West so sensitive, defensive, and uncomfortable with a single nobody expressing their ideas against it? Sometimes I question that if the Holocaust is so true and factual, which I believe it is, why are we so afraid and hysterical when someone speaks out differing ideas?

I should also mention that with Iran's Holocaust denial museum exhibit, less than 50 people a day (on average) actually attended... It isn't "perfect timing" with regard to Denmark's comics depicting Muhammed, they were, as Ben said, making a point. There's no other reason to invest money or public credibility other than to make their point, which I believe they are right on.

i believe there was a holocaust but a lot of times im skeptical as to whether or not the numbers of dead are as high as people claim...thats why sometimes i try to listen to these nay sayers incase they have something meaningful to say....

who knows the number of dead could actually be even higher then what is claimed or even lower

the numbers have been established over and over and over.

I think the laws in Germany about denying the Holocaust come out of a particular historical situation and need..that being that they are a historical center of anti-semitism, are responsible for the Holocaust, and the political party with responsibility for the Holocaust led their country to ruin and the loss of a generation of young men.. Presumably they are concerned that this is a society weakness and that the topic would aid in a rebirth of a similar regime.

Living outside of the area effected, its an academic discussion. Having lived through it, on this particular topic, maybe Germany feels it cant afford the luxury of "principles". I am not going to critisize them for that.

just so we have some context..since the assertion in this thread is that the Western press goes to sleep on Iran and doesnt show them fairly.

The following ALSO doesnt get reported:
how ridiculous can it get? From Iranian TV: Tom and Jerry was a cartoon made to rehabilitate the image of mice, since in Europe Jews were referred to as mice. Also states that Pirates of the Caribbean is part of the Zionist plot..
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=sub...ism&ID=SP130206

This article claims that 50% of Israel was destroyed in its conflict with the Hizbulloh.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=sub...ism&ID=SP135706

Here is the Iranian Presidential advisor talking to university students and claiming things like the Jews have inflicted the most damage on the human race..he also mentions that Bird Flu is part of a Jewish plot...

and finally he mentions that the reason of the conference is NOT to expose hypocracy .. but rather:

'We do not know whether the Holocaust happened or not and so must find out in order to defend the injured party. My suggestion to him,' he said, 'was to set up an investigative committee on this to collect the supporting documents...

"He added that 'before [President] Ahmadinejad placed the issue of the Holocaust [on the global agenda], they [i.e. the West] were always the prosecutors, while we [Muslims] were always [in the position of] the accused. But now Ahmadinejad has enabled us to [take the position of] prosecutors, and challenge the West.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=sub...ism&ID=SP118606

Here is something from Iranian tv talking about how Jewish rabbis used to kill children in Europe for their blood. Mainstream tv in Iran.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=sub...ism&ID=SP105305

First of all, the activities are not morally equivalent. Now that the west is out of the Dark Ages, we don't prosecute people for blasphemy. If, for example, the Iranians were pillorying the Jewish religion, as a Muslim religious figure was pilloried in the cartoons, then there might be some basis for claiming equivalence, but then neither Jews nor anyone in the West would really give a damn would they? But I suppose it would not be possible for Muslims to send up a Jewish figure in the same way, without also offending themselves. Second, I am not aware of any mass rioting or sacking of embassies as a result of this conference, nor do I hear for any calls for changes in international law. Furthermore, I do not wish to legally deny anyone's ability to engage in holocaust revisionism. I will denounce what I see as nonsense, however.

Iran may be attempting to use this conference to demonstrate how the displaying of their antisemitic hatred and holocaust revisionism (which actually predates the Muhammad cartoons) raises the ire of the West, but the key difference is that our reaction is not grossly disproportionate, as it certainly was with the Muhammad cartoons.

All of this 'he said, she said' nonsense does not really serve any ultimate purpose. Either you have confidence in the values of your society, and believe in its superiority and are willing to defend those values, or you do not. I do not see why those who actually favor liberty over theocracy must keep refuting the same tired relativist arguments that half a loaf equals no bread.

Well said.

Andrew....that was well said

I'd just like to add though while I find this topic offensive...the Iranians have a right to state their opinion.....we really just don't have to pay any attention.....its best being ignored.....and if they want to keep david duke they are welcome to him

I'm not missing the point, the bottom line is they believe in this garbarge.

This conference is a ruse on the part of the Arab World. There will be ramifications of this conference many are not aware of and are not going to like. Since Israel became a Nation in the 1940’s, Arabs, not Muslims, have claimed this is unjust and illegal. They claim the United Nations backed by the USA illegally took land from the people in the area and gave it to the Jews as a compensation for Nazi Germany murdering millions of Jews. The Arabs claim that the Jews have no valid, legal or historical claim to certain lands allocated to Israel under United Nations auspices; specifically Jerusalem and the Arabs want it back. Jerusalem…what a misnomer City of Peace…

One way for the Arab Nations to bring to World attention that Israel is an illegally created Nation and dispute Israel’s historical/legal claim to the land is to say the Holocaust never happened or was not aimed specifically at the Jews because many
other non-Jewish people also perished in those death camps.
This claim already has garnered World attention. Iran has stated giving this land to Israel alone as a ‘Holocaust compensation’ for their suffering at the hands of Nazi Germany is illegal and unjust. This will be brought up at the conference.

For those not up on ancient history, Jerusalem (Jebus), and the surrounding area the Jews claim as their own, was already occupied by the Canaanites, who built the city of Jerusalem more than a thousand years before the Jews even showed up to claim the city and surrounding areas as their own. And forcing the indigenous people into submission

Does Israel have a valid, legal and historical claim to this Land?

Brief history of Jerusalem (Jebus, a city named after the Jebusite people who lived there): This city was not built by the Jews. Sporadic traces of 4th and 3rd millennium BC occupation of indigenous people occur but the first substantial settlement with a town wall belongs to the 2nd millennium BC. The town of this period was on the spur of Ophel in the southeastern part of the city. King David (a Jew) took Jerusalem from the Jebusites around 1000 BC under suspicious circumstances.

The Jebusites: Jebusites were a Canaanite tribe who inhabited the region in and around Jerusalem for a couple of thousand years prior to King David declaring the Jebusites must leave; the Books of Kings state that Jerusalem was known as Jebus prior to this event.

The unlawful act?: The taking of Jerusalem (Jebus) from the Jebusites: Rabbinical sources argue that as part of the price of Abraham's purchase of the Cave of Machpelah, which lay in the territory of the Jebusites, the Jebusites made Abraham grant them a covenant that his descendants would not take control of Jebus against the will of the Jebusites, and then the Jebusites engraved the covenant into bronze; the sources state that the presence of the bronze statues are why the Israelites were not able to conquer the city during Joshua's campaign.

However: King David figured a way around this legal document/covenant. He had Joab sneak into the city and steal the bronze covenant.

Then: The covenant is dismissed (broken) by the rabbis as having been invalidated due to the defensive war the Jebusites fought against Joshua.

But: David, according to the rabbis, paid the Jebusites the full value of the city, collecting the money from among all the Israelite tribes, so that the city became their common property.

However: There is no proof available that David in fact did buy the City.

Hence: The Historical claim that Jerusalem is the Jews by law comes into question.
I certainly am not privy to all the ancient historical texts. I am curious as to how it all unfolds. An Ancient Mystery and possibly an Ancient Scandal may come to light. Let em talk…

You can make thousands of pointless cases like this. If true, fine, but return Constantinople to Italy, return the Hagia Sophia to the Christians....etc.. etc...

people should not be jailed for speaking their mind in a society which encourages freedom of speech

Hate speach should not be protected.

SBGum posts: You can make thousands of pointless cases like this

Rore posts: 1st I did not make this claim or ‘case‘. It is a dispute that has raged for over 2000 years.

2nd~ It is far from a ‘pointless case’ to the parties concerned, Israel specifically.

SBG posts: Hate speach should not be protected.

Rore~ Then no speech should be protected. Let’s return to Fascism?…NOT
I know it is hard for Humans to keep emotions in check when discussing unsavory topics, but I think it is vital for our survival.

SBG posts: If true, fine, but return Constantinople to Italy, return the Hagia Sophia to the Christians....etc.. et

Rore~ Fine what SB? A vast number of people want this issue resolved. This is not about any other city in the World except Jerusalem. No one is contesting Constantinople in this post. And this 'pointless case' is one of the causes modern armed conflict between Arabs and Jews (Zionist Israel) in that region has raged for over 50 years. It needs to be resolved imo