Paul Harvey has said it ALL :





HOORAY, HOORAY, HOORAY for Paul Harvey. I myself have been grumbling
and wondering how a handful of people have been able to take our right
to pray in public places away from us. So, agreeing with Paul, I GLADLY
will forward this email AGAIN, AGAIN AND AGAIN.


Folks, this is the Month that we RE-TAKE AMERICA
********* Get Ready *********




Paul Harvey and Prayer


Paul Harvey says:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for
singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I
didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his
Theory of Evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered
because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So
what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the
entire Book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and
asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans
going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on
Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian
churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you
expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish
prayer

If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim
prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone
pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome...

But what about the atheists? Is another argument.

What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going
to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's
asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the
bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell
thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a
football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our
courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught
us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible
tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their
lawyers are telling us to cease praying.
God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you… well, just
sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we tell that
one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority
doesn't care what they want. It is time that the majority rules! It's
time we tell them, "You don't have to pray; you don't have to say the
pledge of allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend
services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your
right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We
are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all ... Especially those who denounce Him, God
bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation
of all. God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right
to pray and worship God.


Let's make 2008 the year the silent majority is heard and we put God
back as the foundation of our families and institutions ... And our
military forces come home from all the wars.

Keep looking up.

Im sorry, I find it damn amusing that Christians in America today think they are having their rights taken away. The evangelicals hold a massively disproportionate amount of political power in the country, the president himself thinks his god talks to him and despite scientists themselves affirming over and over evolution and climate change the religious right has pretended there is "contraversy" on these subjects and attempted to have their dressed up Bronze Age religion introduced as science.

Politicians line up to be seen entering churches and everyone knows the worst thing you can call someone in America is not the "n" word, not the "L" word..but "atheist". Bush Sr. even went so far as to say that he did not think one could be a patriotic American and an atheist.

You want to believe America was "founded on" Christian ideals, but this shows a lack of historical awareness. It was founded on Western Secularism and various elements of philosophy and the Treaty of Tripoli makes it very clear.

You want your 30 seconds of prayer? What is stopping you from doing that yourself? No one. Why insist we make a public spectacle of it? Why cant you take your 30 seconds in your seat in the stands..say, just after the National Anthem and say your prayers then?

One of the forum members here is a Satanist. If he ends up coaching a football team someday, would you mind him saying a short Satanic prayer over your tax dollar funded louspeaker, Liz?

some football teams need all the help they can get.it seems religion is getting a hard time,on modern day earth.

So it is only the religious right who are sceptical about what we are told of the magnitude, causes and effects of climate change? I think that as much as this scepticism is organized it orignates within the business world, and therefore just the "right" rather than the "religious right" in particular. I do not believe in the orthodoxy on climate change and I think it is quite legitimate not to do so.

No, it is not ONLY the religious right, there are other groups as well, particularly those who approach the matter as matter of politics rather than science, those who basically start out with the nagging suspicion that mere humans couldnt possibly change the climate of planet and then set about searching for some evidence.. as opposed to real science which collects data then explains it.

Seeing as how you do not accept the "orthodoxy" of climate change its not a surprise you see it as legitimate to do so but I dont suppose you also happen to have a theory as to how all the extra millions of tons can go into the atmosphere but NOT have an effect?

Quote from Harvey: “Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.”

I really do not subscribe to this at all, but I think I know what Harvey is getting at… Buuuut!…lol

Our Country was founded on the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence (DoI), the Bill of Rights etc and in the DoI I find only two mentions of a deity and neither one references a Christian God…

“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them…”

The above mentions Nature’s God, NOT a Christian god…


“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Again, a mention of a ‘creator’ but this is hardly indicative of the ‘Christian God’ considering most ‘religions’ believe in a creator/originator in some form or another…

I know the USA is predominately Christian and I firmly believe this christian aspect of our society is what has hindered the culture of the USA from flourishing into something Truly Great and Beneficial for all Humanity…imho ~rore

It is all well and good to state the mass of humanity's contribution of carbon dioxide, but what is it in terms of a proportion of the carbon cycle? Carbon dioxide is a minor greenhouse gas, what is more the contribution of reflected thermal radiation "trapped" by the gas is, as the climate scientists themselves say, logarithmically proportional to the amount in the atmosphere. The effect is therefore self-limiting.

A couple of decades ago, climate forecasting used to be a field that was conscious of its own lack of precision, and results were presented with a degree of scepticism. But when it became an area of high political importance, its results were suddenly the unimpeachable truth and the science was "settled" (it is worth noting that if the science was settled then there would be no need of further research, but the field continues to expand).

You say that science does not work on the basis of assumptions, but how many climate scientists working today were also working before the present importance was placed upon the field? Is a climate scientist necessarily free to speak freely on the subject matter, if his view was contrary to the "consensus"? And, as we are fond of ad hominem argumentation when discussing this issue, it is also not in the interest of climate scientists to say things that might diminish everyone else's perception of their importance, such as that there might be a little bit of overconfidence in their powers of prediction and in determining the past state of climate.

A lot of fuss is made over computer forecasting models of climate and in by-proxy reconstructions of past temperature, but the results are trumpeted most vocally by those to whom such things are incomprehensible.

I honestly believe these words " TO EACH HIS OWN "

It is our right to believe in what we feel . In how we were raised .

I will give you a prime examples . ALOT of parents make differences with children , or try and compare them to one another. THAT IS WRONG . BUT that is still their choice .


Some parents will pay OUT their BUTT'S to enroll their children in Catholic Schools .... Their choice .

So many choices in Life . MY choice is to be a good human being and TRUST and Believe in OUR GOD . As we all know , there is ONLY one God , and NOBODY will tell me WHEN I CAN PRAY NOR where I can pray .

I don't think anybody is telling anybody in America when or where they can or can't pray. What they ARE telling people is that they cannot LEAD others in prayer. Why must there be an organized GROUP prayer? I have no problem if people want to pray to God. Why do they have to make a ceremony of it? You want to pray in school? Who's stopping you? Pray in your seat.

When I was in school, we'd all stand, and after the Pledge of Allegiance, the principal would lead us in a prayer. This was public school. Later, they had to change it to a silent prayer. Now, it's no prayer ... no ORGANIZED, GROUP prayer. It doesn't mean you can't pray in your seat.

My God can hear me anywhere, and I don't have to pray out loud, because God doesn't listen to me with his ears (that's why I don't have to shout).

Why can't we have a moment of silence? Why SHOULD we have a moment of silence? Lack of a moment of silence ain't stopping anybody from talking to their God.

That said, I don't understand people who seem to be trying to kill God, or drive God from the Earth completely. Let people have their Gods, just ... don't let them try to push it on other people.

I think people make a big fuss over nothing. If someone wants to pray over a football game, I care less. I have the option not to follow along. That's freedom...and I thank GOD (my god..not your god) that I do have that freedom. Further, if people would, for a moment, stop bitching about having it 'their way', they'd see that there is a such thing as COMPROMISE. Its easy enough to allow 30 seconds of silence so that people can thank whoever the hell they want to. Not enough people seem interested in finding solutions. There are some things that one should never compromise on but, for all the rest, compromise should be the goal. An atheist's right not to pray is no greater than a believer's right to pray and I respect those rights equally. What right does one have to tell others that they can not lead the willing in prayer? Let them lead and I, myself, will sit down and shut the hell up. I have that right.

What all this boils down to is a question of 'right belief' and 'wrong belief'. It is this same 'I'm right, you're wrong' attitude...from the Christian to the Atheist to the Muslim...that is tearing this world apart.

CJ POSTS: NOBODY will tell me WHEN I CAN PRAY
=============================
Conversely speaking; NOBODY WILL TELL ME WHEN IT'S TIME TO PRAY IN A PUBLIC PLACE… PERIOD
I am not a Muslim

As Jesus even stated, prayer is a personal thing to be done in private or with people of like mind… NEVER did he infer that a group of religious folks should impose their will upon others… ~rore

And religious folk also includes non-religious folk.

But here is the question: Why do you need 30 seconds of "silence" even? If your god hears your prayers any time, any where.. why do you need an organized 30 seconds for it? You cant find 30 seconds any where else in your day to pray? Religion is a personal, private thing between you and your god. I would think you would want to keep it that way.

Why should the question even bother you enough to ask it? Many people obviously want those 30 seconds and it is not in my authority to determine for them or question 'why' those 30 seconds are necessary. Again, it seems to be more of an issue centering around what one thinks is the correct way...the right way...the true way...to believe. It harms no one...it violates no human right...so what is it to me if people bow their heads in silence for 30 seconds? It does not trouble me to so honor them.

In Japan, when the bell rings, the students stand and 'meditate' during the bell, then greet the teacher when the chime or bell is finished (or say goodbye if it is the ending chime). There's no religion involved. It's done to clear the mind. I don't think it harms anybody to meditate, and bowing the head is a good way to reduce distractions.

Even if there was religion or personal belief involved, Kirin...it would still harm none..its much ado about nothing at all. Why do people concern themselves with this silliness? Why are people so against allowing another a simple act of faith which does not interfere with their own belief structure or cause them grave inconvenience in their busy day? When people pray, I remain silent out of respect toward the individuals and not out of submission to their religion. When a person speaks on something that they value or deem necessary, I remain silent out of respect toward the person. I do not interrupt. Its called respecting the dignity of a person and I am not opposed to it. Christ, give them their damn 30 seconds...

I agree with you, Iw2b2. I was brought up in a family that didn't say grace. However, I used to work with a guy who said a silent prayer before meals. Out of respect for his belief, I would stop eating until he had said his grace. It was just respect.

Likewise, I think during prayer time you can pray to pretty much anybody you want to ... or nobody at all.

However, I've known schools that didn't want students to have a prayer circle, even if it was done behind a closed door. The idea of kids getting together in a circle, holding hands and praying just offended them somehow. I find that ridiculous. I don't like the idea of one person telling another who to pray to, but I also don't like the idea of one person telling another that they can't pray.

I think, though, that the elementary school boy and his little sister, who dressed up in their sunday best and stood in front of the school early every morning shouting sermons to the sinners was a bit much (happened in the next town when I was kid).

My "issue" with it is as I said.. why would you feel so compelled to make a public spectacle of your belief system that you feel the need to make a rather large production out of your prayer in a place that is not given over to your religion and its practices? Why would you not want to keep your personal relationship with your god between you and god? What drives you to announce to the world that at this particular moment in time you feel the need to talk to your god?

The reason I capitalized my comment in post #12 was simply because I did spend time in the Middle-East and there was a call to prayer several times a day and it certainly felt eerie in that it felt like a ‘command’.
I do not like religions or the religious Publicly Commanding anything from anyone.

In regards to Harvey’s comment, why should we start sporting events etc with a prayer to a Christian God?
Let’s make no mistake; in this country, the USA, the majority of Public Praying is to a Christian/Abrahamic God.
Should we promote or institutionalize this behavior?
Should Islam and Judaism get equal time? Might be a way of promoting tolerance/unifying all three belief systems…hmmm
How about Pagans?
Where does it end?… Does it even matter?

A moment of silence prior to the beginning of an event, I see no problem with though.

It‘s all the ‘words’ thrown into this moment that usually disconcerts me…

:vicar: “Let Us Pray”(Prey?:eek: )… ~rore