IF we allow the world to 'end' in a cataclysm (and I'm of the opinion that it will be our fault and that it's something we can choose) then it will be through nuclear war.

In reading Revelation, we can see the very primitive description of nuclear war.

However, if humanity doesn't want this to happen, we can very easily stop it. But the governments continue to war with technology that is way more advanced than their wisdom.

-Josh
Aliens='God'
www.rael.org

I think your right. Well, if we do kill ourselves by means of nuclear war, at least we went out in a fashionable way. No one will have to make up a new and creative way to kill ourselves, just chock it up to a tried and true way.

This post has been edited by ScottMan: Jun 11 2008, 08:23 PM

The World will end when our Sun begins to die. The Sun will expand and swallow up all the Planets in our Solar system and then collapse in on itself. All the Armageddon theorists are just talking bollocks. They are misreading the Bible and putting their own perspectives to it. Many trials and tribulations will befall the Earth and its People before our dear old Earth is incinerated by our Sun. Hopefully when that time comes the people of Earth will have found new homes among the stars.

However, if humanity doesn't want this to happen, we can very easily stop it. But the governments continue to war with technology that is way more advanced than their wisdom.

A single super volcanoe eruption might set us back but it would be debatable as to extinction. And one super volcanoe has the potential to have more energy than all of our nuclear arsinals combined.

There is some risk from all out nuclear war causing complete devestation of our infrastructure. There is insuficient arsenal at this point and the purpose of the non proliferation treaty is to keep it so. This is also contengent on keeping nuclear arsinals out of the hands of countries likely to use them. Iran strongly advocates the destruction of Israel and is engaged in a nuclear weapons program. This is a direct test of the worlds resolve to prevent such actions. A country stating the dedicated belief in the destruction of another as a matter of ideology seeking nuclear weapons. It does become a matter of world responsibility.

Yes, technically you are right! The planet earth will end when the sun expands and eats it. I guess we humans are so arrongant to think that the 'world' will end when we do. But yes, the planet will continue on without us. I too, hope that humanity will have found other places to live by this time. I'm sure we have ample time - the people who placed us here would have studied the sun and they would have seen that we had ample time to develop and discover technologies that will allow us to find another 'earth-like' planet to live on.

-Josh
Aliens='God'
www.rael.org

I agree with you that nuclear weapons are a great threat to humanity, but let's not focus only on Iran. It is the United States that is one of the most dangerous holders of nuclear weapons. They aren't the "good guys" like we've been taught. Iran are very primitive, yes, and they have threatened to destroy Israel, but Israel are not innocent. Just look at the way they treat the Palestinians and their neighbours.

Bottom line - anyone who has nuclear weapons is a great danger to the world.

-josh
Aliens='God'
www.rael.org

Bottom line - anyone who has nuclear weapons is a great danger to the world.

Absolutly, I agree 100 percent. However first risk consideration must be given to those most likely to employ them.

Risk doesn't go away until they are banned and destroyed. Only a world governing body would be capable of creating a political climate capable of accomplishing that. This is a long way off so the next best thing is to prevent those mot having them from aquiring.

Oh, please. Grow out of the Cold War already. The probability of full out nuclear war in these times is almost zero.

Oh, please. Grow out of the Cold War already. The probability of full out nuclear war in these times is almost zero.

Agreed. Limited use is possible but even that unlikely at this time.

As a comment about this, in my usual style, I would like to completely contradict this without any facts supporting what I have to say. Lol.

I have come to realize that the life a star is much longer then what you are told it is. The development and decay of a star as explained by the experts that are officially far more qualified then I is in fact incorrect.

The sun is older then your told it is. If it was as explained in the text book explanation then it would have expanded already. So it's death will not be by expansion. It will simply explode with some turbulence in advance of the explosion.

I am not saying any of this will happen soon. Just that it will be different than explained.

I disagree 100%. A knife can be a deadly weapon, yet if we had to live without it life would be much harder.

The ability to wield power is dicey. On one hand you can wipe yourself, your friends and all humanity out with it. On the other, you may get wiped out without it. It is a double edged sword.

Nuclear weapons are a crude technological way of controlling atomic power. Even an explosion on command is an instance of control. How would you like to solve the energy crisis? How would you like something to help fend off attackers should Earth be visited by hostiles? How would you like to visit other stars?

The true power of any civilization is the power it can wield on command. It's potential to win at conflicts, redirect planet killing asteroids or even the proficiency to power your home with ease are all questions of wielded power.

While some people may get irrational on the subject of power, it can not be denied that it can be a helpful ally to have on your side in a pinch.

There are three ways this can go. One is that we can all say that power is evil or some statement about how we can't trust each other and strip down our ability until fate (that is what it will be when you don't have a say in your own destiny) hands us a death dealing blow. Second, we can enforce that power is used correctly and live to tell the tale. Third we can keep our bombs and detonate here at home too.

The practice of saying "I can't trust you with this power and thus need to take it away" or similar idea has seen no improvement in man. It has been taken away by moralist more times then you know, and in the end, we payed dearly for it. We can't keep this up much longer. Killing ourseleves is not a good option either.

This current rush of technology and learning is an effort to break free of all this desire to keep man stupid so he won't hurt himself or anyone else. Taking away our ability to hurt ourselves may sound very adult, but one day we just might need the ability to wield some force and power. No matter how logical it sounds to you, it is illogical to reduce man to something less so as to save him form himself.

It does not work as advertised. We could have a fast death by blowing ourselves up or a slow death by taking away that very ability. The hope that one day man will become responsible enough is nothing more then a hope. It will never happen, or at least has not happened thus far and that is saying something considerable. we can take the same road as always or we can be a little more responsible this time. There is this third path, it involves growing up and being adults about this. It involves never letting that power be misused. Isn't that ironic? It almost sounds like taking it away, it is much like it, but to who do you give it to? You need to make people you can give it to because they don't grow on trees.

Cultivate people that can be trusted with power and the rest will fall into place with ease. Do this and you will get to see something you may never have seen before. What you will see is that taking away an ability never really helped us, it was just a solution when all else failed that would only lead to more failures. It is an endless chain because it solves nothing in the long run as it never touches the real problem. Some people are destroying themselves and everyone else, so it doesn't mater how much you take away, they will always use what they have to this destructive end. We need to learn a new path. The one we have is heavy with mistakes, one of which was the reduction of ourselves to level that we would not wipe ourselves out anymore.

Every time you have a dramatic rise in power, you must also raise your morality and responsibility so that the power doesn't kill you. It does not owrk any other way. Do do so means you will drop back down and who knows if we will ever get this chance again.

This post has been edited by ScottMan: Jun 17 2008, 04:28 PM

I was under the impression that a Star expands, decays and dies when its fuel, Hydrogen in the case of our Sun, is depleted. The reason this hasn't happened is surely because it has not depleted its fuel?
I thought the process involved a Star expanding, contracting and then exploding in a "Super Nova"?

No, it does not always expand. That is just a theory anyway. I really don't wish to counter that theory in fact. I am sure there are stars that do just that. But ours is not going to expand before it explodes.

Give these guys a few 100,000 or even a million years of study and I am sure they will be able to tell me allot more about why and what to expect. But for now, they are expanding the number of ways stars can die and only theorizing about those that we see dieing. Ours is not on the list yet thankfully because it is still here.

This post has been edited by ScottMan: Jun 17 2008, 04:37 PM

like a paradox, history repeats itself.

who's to say this hasn't already occoured?

I agree with the volcano theory. I think we're more likely to die from some natural disaster like a comet or a massive volcano that could blanket the earth in darkness before dying of nuclear explosion or the sun exploding. The sun WILL explode don't get me wrong, if it's not one way it's the other. But that's not for another 4 or 5 BILLION years. um...BILLION I just said, did you hear me? That's a long f*cking time. In order to die from nuclear war there would have to be bombs set up in certain locations throughout the world and set off at the same time. The world is huge, it takes a lot of energy to take us out. Honestly I think it'll be one of four things:

1. A spread of infectious disease that wipes out everyone, cept maybe animals
2. a comet from space or a volcano
3. alien invasion (hehehe well maybe, got to add that in there)
4. The sun exploding, which would mean we would be around for SO long that evoloution would take hold and slowly change us back to slimey animals.

Yes, a world government would create a political climate that could accomplish world peace, as far as nuclear weapons are concerned.

People fear the idea of a world government, but if it were run properly without the pressing of individual freedoms, it would be fine.

-Josh
Aliens='God'
www.rael.org

A knife is not capable of wiping out billions of people in one go like a nuclear weapon. Yes, life would be hard without knives, but it wouldn't be hard without nuclear weapons. Again, a better comparison would be needed to argue your point.

The ability to wield power is egotistical. Just because you have the power to wipe out the world doesn't mean that you have to show it off OR to even have it in the first place. In fact, those who have it are more likely to be attacked. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. It is far better to be a peaceful country without nuclear weapons and only a peace keeping force than to be like the USA with a huge military budget and nuclear weapons. This will ensure your survival if you are a peaceful country and act only to defend yourself, instead of invading like the USA and other countries.

I said that we need to get rid of nuclear WEAPONS - not nuclear power. In fact, nuclear power has many benefits when controlled by the right people in the right environment and it will allow us to visit other stars. But we won't have to fend off attackers from another planet - aliens don't invade. I promise you this. This is why we haven't been invaded and we never will be. They are too advanced to be violent and primitive.

The true power of any civilization is the power it can wield on command? Again, this is macho egotistical crap. The true power of any civilization is its love and peace. Like I said, those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Those who carry guns are more likely to be shot than those who don't carry them in society. This also relates to the international stage. However, it's always good to have capsicum spray

-Josh
Aliens='God'
www.rael.org

Cliches cliches cliches. Tired cliches.

Major nuclear powers: China, Russia, UK, the US, France. (Im temporarily excluding India, Pakistan, and Israel for sake of brevity).

All nuclear armed at the latest by 1957 (1959? I cant remember exactly right now when China went nucluear).

Since then the number of times, combined, they have been attacked by another nation state: 2. Number of times they had been attacked by foreign powers in the the 51 years BEFORE that date? Something like 15.

Sentences like "live by the sword, die by the sword" sound nice and appeal to the "niceness" inside us, but generally are..well..wrong.

Lets go back to Israel. Number of times it has been attacked BEFORE developing nukes: 3 major wars, numberous smaller ones. Major attacks on Israel SINCE aquiring nuclear weapons: 0.

Revist Pakistan and India. Prior to the two of them aquirign nukes, they fought 2 real wars and constant small ones. Since nukes were introduced: No real war.

Am I saying nukes are the greatest thing since sliced bread? no. Im saying start talking in facts, not cliches and deal with the issue in real life terms not in nice sounding mantras.

yeah i think youre right, i mean scientists are comin up with alot of weapons wothout us knowine

a plasma burst from an exploding star could within our own milky way galaxy could wipe out life on earth at any time without warning,simply by destroying the ionosphere,most stars in our galaxy are middle aged.i don't think we will be the makers of our own destruction.nature and the universe has a far more threatening arsenal of weapons,are survival depends on natures choices,not man's weapons.