The Now and Change

[Dundee]

Hey Kway,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You and I have been down this road/topic before. I work with computers everyday, and have worked as a techo all my life in one form or another. I am what you call a jack of all trades but a master of none I just can't see it happening, ever I think. But hey, who knows what the future will bring, maybe I am wrong.
Cheers and keep on believing, we need more of that in the world

PS// Hey Kway we did it, we survived several posts on our favorite topic of debate and stayed civil. A pat on the back to us both, if I believed in the Karma system here I would give you some But I don't, so I won't.
hehe

[Kway]

Hey Kway,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You and I have been down this road/topic before. I work with computers everyday, and have worked as a techo all my life in one form or another. I am what you call a jack of all trades but a master of none I just can't see it happening, ever I think. But hey, who knows what the future will bring, maybe I am wrong.
Cheers and keep on believing, we need more of that in the world

PS// Hey Kway we did it, we survived several posts on our favorite topic of debate and stayed civil. A pat on the back to us both, if I believed in the Karma system here I would give you some But I don't, so I won't.
hehe

I'm happy for us.
I respect your opinion, and thank you for your kindness, you 'deserve' some 'karma' too, I would give you some for that post, but you don't believe in it, so I wont

I will stay believing in a new world. I am still not sure how it will 'present itself' to us, but once I feel what change, or place I can take, towards that world, I will be sure to take that step...
Thanks again, it was good to debate with you

[Kway]

It's far more complicated. Robots don't work on the same form of energy we do. We eat for energy, they literally use electricity. The problem is for all the robots needed to take care of the menial jobs to free up time for humans in the "more advanced" jobs would require several times more robots of every function we have currently existing, with much of our resources directed at them. Robots, despite popular belief, are not really all that efficient or versatile, especially given the weight and build of how they currently work. Even certain smart materials (which are still in their infancy of usefulness) are not energy efficient enough, though might be versatile enough if they ever reach enough strength. Robots require constant power and materials. Massive amounts of materials. Most likely the materials we normally would need to build and grow. And assuming robots can learn to adapt to new environments as the world changes, they will require constant evaluation and adaptations, requiring disassembling older models just for the parts, creating a larger strain on materials, energy, and people apparently willing to do this.

However, there's no real extraordinary reason to believe if capitalism ended, would energy become more advanced. Assuming the idea of people of the correct mental caliber, talent, and experience actually coming together in large throngs to assist in singular altruistic projects, there isn't enough science currently to suggest that if capitalism were to end, their projects would somehow pick up, implemented, and somehow be engaged on a global scale.

But you bring up something else, free energy. No current science suggests there is such a thing as "free energy." The closest thing to that would be pure solar power as the only true, semi-dependable source of energy in certain parts of the world. And possibly wind energy as a back up. The very first law of thermodynamics state perpetual energy machines, and thus perpetual energy, is impossible. Now, the argument could be said that the science is just inadequate and out of date. However, there is a much larger problem at hand in the idea of building perpetual energy machines: designing something with almost nothing to work on.

Most scientific endeavors were created when the science behind them was well understood. This is the reason we don't just simply try to cure AIDS without first understanding how AIDS works. Building infinite energy without knowing how infinite energy even works would be nearly impossible short of some miraculous event. If they haven't worked the science, people can make all the claims they want of making free energy. They would do the entire world a mess ton better by providing the formulas and scientific principles (with proof of work) to infinite energy, and let the world develop the technology. An entire world of scientists working on what very well may be the most significant discovery in history is a heck of a lot more efficient, quick, and likely than a single scientist claiming his life work is being suppressed. If they want to share it, share the formulas.

However, for Tesla? He was working on his death ray, Teleforce. Not free energy. His last contribution to energy was the development of A/C power.

But going back to capitalism limitations. Now, to a degree, I will agree. I do believe companies extend their financial muscle on some companies when they feel they will be done away with. Oil companies on electric car companies, etc. However, that's because there was precedent to actually win. Electric cars were pretty much inefficient, short ranged, and had no support base. A big problem in their day and age, with the idea only now being implemented far and wide in the form of hybrids, and some pure electric cars with better ranges, with many people worried about our impending loss of all fossil fuels in another forty years. If the case were, "Oil companies beat free energy companies," it would be different. Given many EPA, U.N., and personal desires, a free energy program (assuming it doesn't have disastrous effects on the planet) would probably be embraced, with tons of technology in development to take advantage of it as soon as a grid of it was available.

I disagree with a lot of what you said but I think this trail of debate should end here, it has been quite off-topic for a long time now, and I think if you and I were to continue, we will either find a dead-end where we both disagree on something hypothetical, or keep going in circles.

So I respect that you disagree with my opinion, and you have your own, and maybe one day one of us will be proved right or wrong. Either way.. I think we can all agree that a change from this system would be good.
Thanks for your thoughts too, they help me think from a different angle.

[Makenzye]

Awww. You can't tell me to go here to debate this, then shut it down.

That's just mean. :P

[Kway]

Awww. You can't tell me to go here to debate this, then shut it down.

That's just mean. :P

Lol... Well honestly I think we would just keep picking hypothetical and logical flaws in each other's opinions and it's all irrelevant seeing as we're not SURE what we're capable of. I'm also tired of debating this now

Sorry for being a meanie.