Thread: Wilfully Induced Hallucinations

sounds spiritually dangerous

I do not find that so remarkable. There are many ways of altered states of consiousness. Sleep is one. And the transitory stage just before sleep.

I often hear voices, conversations, and loud noise just on the edge of sleep. They used to wake me up until I learned they were illusions and how to filter them out from real sounds.

My math teacher at University tried to get me to switch to math major. He said I had a geometric mind and could go far in math. When the math got really complex as in advanced linear algebra, I could close my eyes and turn the problem into geometric shapes for the solutions. For engineering problems I build complex shapes, colors, motions, and forms mentally.

It is a skill that can be developed with practice. That I believe is part of the secret of meditation, which I have never done. An altered state of consciousness where you disconnect from outside stimulous and use mental constructs.

Anyone can do it with practice and motivation. It is a part of the way our brains work that permits abstract reasoning. It is a way of seperating the abstraction process from external stimulous and controlling it as an independent function.

For me it takes some effort and concentration. As it does for most who develop it as a skill.

There are some people who have real genious and can do it without conscious effort. It is the way some people can solve complex math problems instantly. Or have absolute total recall.

It is just a part of the way the human brain works. Without it we would not have the abstraction necesary for language and math. How we apply it is a matter of motivation and self training discipline.

People who are multi lingual have found a special way they apply their abstraction skills.

You have developed a unique way of applying yours.

The ability to seperate and catagorize reality from fantasy is the diff between sanity and insanity. The ability to construct elaborate fantasy and apply it to reality is genious.

Originally Posted by Supreme Acolyte

....................Firstly, I would like to immediately dismiss any individuals who think that my uncharacteristic metal control demands that I seek some sort of "professional help". As stated earlier, I control these hallucinations, I know they are not real (usually), and I am in no way disturbed by them. .............................

How would an individual who did need medical intervention know the difference? many people who are experiencing certain psychological conditions would also deny emphatically that there is anything wrong at all. I am not suggesting you have a problem, i am asking you, how could you tell the difference?

Originally Posted by bart5050

I do not find that so remarkable. There are many ways of altered states of consiousness. Sleep is one. And the transitory stage just before sleep.

I often hear voices, conversations, and loud noise just on the edge of sleep. They used to wake me up until I learned they were illusions and how to filter them out from real sounds.

I have actually encountered some people in my life who have also experienced this. I agree that this probably isn't so remarkable, but I hesitate to say for sure, due to the poor sampling rate on which I would base such a conclusion.

It seems that asking people "do you hear voices before you fall asleep" can attract the wrong kind of attention, so, I stopped asking them. Those that actually said that they did, sometimes attributed it to the paranormal, and got the wrong impression when I tried to discuss the possibility of it being a hallucination.

Originally Posted by bart5050

My math teacher at University tried to get me to switch to math major. He said I had a geometric mind and could go far in math. When the math got really complex as in advanced linear algebra, I could close my eyes and turn the problem into geometric shapes for the solutions. For engineering problems I build complex shapes, colors, motions, and forms mentally.

When I close my eyes, and see geometric shapes and spirals, there is no effort to do so, the effort comes into play only when I wish to control or change them. If I do nothing, they will continue to move , change colour, and spin around, seemingly at random. I think it's different from forming mental images, as you describe (although, I may be wrong, since I could have misunderstood) because, you may be able to see them in your mind (and perhaps language is limited to describing exactly what I mean here, since ultimately everything is seen in one's mind), but do you see them with your eyes. My eyes are closed, but the shapes are as if they're emitting light into my eyes, I don't know if that makes sense, but I'm uncertain of how else I can describe it.

Originally Posted by bart5050

There are some people who have real genious and can do it without conscious effort. It is the way some people can solve complex math problems instantly. Or have absolute total recall.

Interesting, I believe that these traits often go hand in hand with a diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder, and have heard of instances that could perhaps be comparable to what I myself experience.

Originally Posted by bart5050

It is just a part of the way the human brain works. Without it we would not have the abstraction necesary for language and math. How we apply it is a matter of motivation and self training discipline.

I find this interesting. It suggests that the underlying mechanisms at play regarding my sensory hallucinations are present with all people, but they are not necessarily aware of it in the same sense that I am.

I have often been fascinated with some of the proposed causes of synaesthesia. Some have suggested that cross-wiring between areas of the brain may result in some of the descriptions that synaesthates give to their experiences, and I have often wondered if what I`m describing could be similarly explained.

Originally Posted by Dundee

How would an individual who did need medical intervention know the difference? many people who are experiencing certain psychological conditions would also deny emphatically that there is anything wrong at all. I am not suggesting you have a problem, i am asking you, how could you tell the difference?

Well, from a medical perspective, I suppose it would have to do with the quality of life of the person in question, and whether or not that individual is negatively influencing the quality of life of those around him.

If you`re asking how I would know if I had a problem myself, well, obviously, the same question could apply to you.

Since we have nothing to which we can compare our perception of reality, we have no way of knowing whether we live in some self induced fantasy, or something that actually has some basis on our physical surroundings. Everything we think we know is based on the assumption that most of what we experience is real.

Originally Posted by Dundee

How would an individual who did need medical intervention know the difference? many people who are experiencing certain psychological conditions would also deny emphatically that there is anything wrong at all. I am not suggesting you have a problem, i am asking you, how could you tell the difference?

Those who need 'medical intervention' are those whose hallucinations are accompanied by delusion. A delusional person is unable to access the rationalization faculties of their brain and thus can not distinguish between hallucination and reality. The fact that SA is aware that the hallucination are hallucinations means that he is not delusional. Delusion, except in rare and sometimes natural instances, is the product of psychosis and/or mental illness.

I experience a wide range of hallucinatory phenomena due to my sleep disorder. One peculiar phenomena is what is called REM intrusions. I simply call it a waking dream. It is the reverse of 'lucid dreaming' where as with LD, lucidity intrudes upon REM sleep (dream), with RI, REM sleep intrudes upon the waking conscious. For about a second, I am in a shadowy realm of conscious where I can not distinguish between dream content and reality. After that second, I am not able to stop the hallucination but I am completely aware that the content is hallucinatory. In a lucid dream, a person can control the dream content but they are not consciously aware of their surroundings and can not function in a conscious, awake state. They are still sleeping and their voluntary muscles are still paralyzed. With RI, I am dreaming but I am still functioning consciously. I can carry on a conversation, work, etc. My conscious is split between the dream hallucination and 'being awake'. Though, I can slip into full sleep in less than a second as well and that is usually immediately proceeded by cataplexy. It is during the catapletic second that I am unable to distinguish between dream and reality. But this 'delusion' is different from the delusion of mental illness because it is a natural function of the sleep mechanism, except or unless one becomes lucid in the REM state, they are entirely and naturally delusional. They can not distinguish between the dream and reality. The states of consciousness are many and varied and often so subtle as to but indistinguishable to all be the one experiencing that state.

I must admit, however, that I have some apprehension regarding the further exploration of these events. I fear that there is some threshold that if passed, will alter my very notion of reality. If I become capable of entering this world of my imagination at will, what motivation would I have to leave? Does entering it willingly also mean that I can leave it willingly if my visions become less enjoyable? I suppose ultimately, my motivation to furthering this exploration comes from my need (a need which is universal for all) to further the understanding of the self, but the cost may be that of the very self I seek to comprehend.

I understand your apprehension, SA. I've always been drawn to such things as well. However, I have been apprehensive of further exploration due to the nature of my sleep disorder. I slip into so many altered states with such ease and speed that it has often times brought me near to tears. I no longer trust myself fully to be 'awake' and I don't want to escalate the frequency of the REM intrusions. They are very difficult to endure. Yet, drawn I am....so what to do? I don't know.

Oh, and I know exactly what you are talking about with the 'geometric spirals and shapes'. They are in constant motion...luminous and multi-hued against a dark, sometimes reddish background. They are harmless and fun and quite beautiful.

Originally Posted by iwant2believe2

Those who need 'medical intervention' are those whose hallucinations are accompanied by delusion. A delusional person is unable to access the rationalization faculties of their brain and thus can not distinguish between hallucination and reality. The fact that SA is aware that the hallucination are hallucinations means that he is not delusional. Delusion, except in rare and sometimes natural instances, is the product of psychosis and/or mental illness.

I experience a wide range of hallucinatory phenomena due to my sleep disorder. One peculiar phenomena is what is called REM intrusions. I simply call it a waking dream. It is the reverse of 'lucid dreaming' where as with LD, lucidity intrudes upon REM sleep (dream), with RI, REM sleep intrudes upon the waking conscious. For about a second, I am in a shadowy realm of conscious where I can not distinguish between dream content and reality. After that second, I am not able to stop the hallucination but I am completely aware that the content is hallucinatory. In a lucid dream, a person can control the dream content but they are not consciously aware of their surroundings and can not function in a conscious, awake state. They are still sleeping and their voluntary muscles are still paralyzed. With RI, I am dreaming but I am still functioning consciously. I can carry on a conversation, work, etc. My conscious is split between the dream hallucination and 'being awake'. Though, I can slip into full sleep in less than a second as well and that is usually immediately proceeded by cataplexy. It is during the catapletic second that I am unable to distinguish between dream and reality. But this 'delusion' is different from the delusion of mental illness because it is a natural function of the sleep mechanism, except or unless one becomes lucid in the REM state, they are entirely and naturally delusional. They can not distinguish between the dream and reality. The states of consciousness are many and varied and often so subtle as to but indistinguishable to all be the one experiencing that state.



I understand your apprehension, SA. I've always been drawn to such things as well. However, I have been apprehensive of further exploration due to the nature of my sleep disorder. I slip into so many altered states with such ease and speed that it has often times brought me near to tears. I no longer trust myself fully to be 'awake' and I don't want to escalate the frequency of the REM intrusions. They are very difficult to endure. Yet, drawn I am....so what to do? I don't know.

Oh, and I know exactly what you are talking about with the 'geometric spirals and shapes'. They are in constant motion...luminous and multi-hued against a dark, sometimes reddish background. They are harmless and fun and quite beautiful.

show me how.

Originally Posted by iwant2believe2

Those who need 'medical intervention' are those whose hallucinations are accompanied by delusion. A delusional person is unable to access the rationalization faculties of their brain and thus can not distinguish between hallucination and reality. The fact that SA is aware that the hallucination are hallucinations means that he is not delusional. Delusion, except in rare and sometimes natural instances, is the product of psychosis and/or mental illness.

Is it that they can't access the rationalisation faculties of their brain, or rather that, upon accessing it, this part of the brain makes correlations between things that have no factual similarities in reality as we perceive it. I admit that I, being young, and perhaps sheltered, have not come into contact with many delusional characters, so I may lack the necessary knowledge and experience to discuss what they are, and what they are not.

Originally Posted by iwant2believe2

I experience a wide range of hallucinatory phenomena due to my sleep disorder. One peculiar phenomena is what is called REM intrusions. I simply call it a waking dream. It is the reverse of 'lucid dreaming' where as with LD, lucidity intrudes upon REM sleep (dream), with RI, REM sleep intrudes upon the waking conscious. For about a second, I am in a shadowy realm of conscious where I can not distinguish between dream content and reality. After that second, I am not able to stop the hallucination but I am completely aware that the content is hallucinatory. In a lucid dream, a person can control the dream content but they are not consciously aware of their surroundings and can not function in a conscious, awake state. They are still sleeping and their voluntary muscles are still paralyzed. With RI, I am dreaming but I am still functioning consciously. I can carry on a conversation, work, etc. My conscious is split between the dream hallucination and 'being awake'. Though, I can slip into full sleep in less than a second as well and that is usually immediately proceeded by cataplexy. It is during the catapletic second that I am unable to distinguish between dream and reality. But this 'delusion' is different from the delusion of mental illness because it is a natural function of the sleep mechanism, except or unless one becomes lucid in the REM state, they are entirely and naturally delusional. They can not distinguish between the dream and reality. The states of consciousness are many and varied and often so subtle as to but indistinguishable to all be the one experiencing that state.

It is interesting that you should mention becoming lucid in the REM state as being naturally delusional. I often have instances where memories of events that have never actually happened to me, but were rather invented in my dreams, have been mistaken for reality, usually only momentarily, but sometimes I don't realise it until speaking to others with whom I 'believed' I shared the event. It's interesting because as soon as reality puts into question such memories, my mind immediatly reminds me that the memory was formed in my sleep, and not in reality. It is essentially as if I forgot that the memories were fromed in my dreams.

One the topic of delusion, the many instances of sleep paralysis which I have experienced throughout my life come to mind. When I experienced them as a child, I was incapable of recognising them for what they were, afterall, my senses were 'telling' me that what I was experiencing was real. As I become older, however, I learned that there are many characteristic symptoms of sleep paralysis that one can experience during such episodes, and realized that I shared many of them. I never beleived them to be real, because the hallucinations experienced during them were so fantastical that it would be irrational to believe them, but without knowing what they were... it was distressing.

Now when I experience them, they can still be distressing, but recognizing them for what they are is quite calming.

Originally Posted by iwant2believe2

I understand your apprehension, SA. I've always been drawn to such things as well. However, I have been apprehensive of further exploration due to the nature of my sleep disorder. I slip into so many altered states with such ease and speed that it has often times brought me near to tears. I no longer trust myself fully to be 'awake' and I don't want to escalate the frequency of the REM intrusions. They are very difficult to endure. Yet, drawn I am....so what to do? I don't know.

I can never fully understand what it must feel like to go through that... But, at the same time, I feel a certain, how should I say, link to you Tutu. I know what it feels like to want to control your mind, to want to believe that somehow by 'trying harder' we can overcome ourselves. I've been driven to tears after failing time and time again to gain control of myself, but I know if I do give up, if I stop trying, that's when I've truly failed. I hope my words don't sound hollow, because I've never taken well to those who tell me they 'understand' when they don't... so I give you my words with the disclaimer that I don't understand, and never will, but perhaps I can still feel that kind of pain.

Originally Posted by iwant2believe2

Oh, and I know exactly what you are talking about with the 'geometric spirals and shapes'. They are in constant motion...luminous and multi-hued against a dark, sometimes reddish background. They are harmless and fun and quite beautiful.

I know you know what I'm talking about. I remember a thread you posted some time ago contained a picture of brightly coloured spirals on a dark background, and I knew then that you understood. That, and you posted a thread about CEV's...

Originally Posted by Supreme Acolyte

Lately, within the last few months, I have become more capable of initiating the sense of hearing music, usually while I`m at work, as a form of amusement. Complex symphonic harmonies will play in my mind, but it feels as though I hear it from my surroundings, as if live musicians were playing near me. My current occupation often involves my sitting in a laboratory, alone, and at night. There are others in the lab, but they aren`t of the talkative type, so I`ve been exploring this further.


There is a second, visual, type of hallucination that I have not yet become very skilled at controlling. There was a previous discussion on these, and I believe some term them CEV, for closed eye visualization. My experience of these involves the production of geometric spirals of colour, and sometimes more detailed three dimensional objects, every time I close my eyes. I can control this to some degree, by concentrating in a certain manner, I can control the colour and shapes of objects, and also, have become capable to some degree to do this with my eyes opened. So far, however, more complex three dimensional scenes have not occurred wilfully, or if they do, for only briefly. These scenes can be someone`s face (usually not someone I recognize, yet they are very detailed none the less), or very elaborate landscapes involving brightly coloured fields and flowers – colours so bright, that I would never experience them in reality, at least in relation to such a setting.

I would instantley dismiss any idea that this may be something to do with you being phycologically unstable. I believe that the people of today are so ingulfed by the lies that surround them that any person who steps forward with something new is instantley lablled as "unwell". I was told once that god has been trying to contact certain individuals to make them stand up and shout but they are being held back by medications and peoples need to laugh and say you may not be normal which blinds them from the true reality. I think that people get sucked into a system which doesn't allow them anything. they must go to work every day get home and go about their pointless lives in ignorance. I think you have a gift and to fully understand this gift you must take risks.

peace x