http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxZ0sVjjnt4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59iNmvAK8uU

What about the Black kids that go to school, get job's and never get in trouble with the ''police'', is this their mentality aswell Mande...?

Just a quick question what the hell does this mean what he says (quoted below)...?

I listened to these two kids and as you say they are pretty angry. We are constantly told that our skin color makes no difference, that we should, when describing someone, say, that bloke over there in the red shirt, NOT that black man or that yellow man over there. We are told this is to some extent racist, that we are all equal and we should not see skin color as significant. Ok, so why do the words of just about every other song that rappers, sing almost all do nothing but point out race and color. And why is it Ok and not racist?

If doing this is racist, as so often is pointed out... well take a look at the lyrics of that idiot 50cent.
I hate the mongrel, nothing to do with his skin color in any way at all. But for the lifestyle he glamorizes, How many impressionable kids go around acting like him, talking like him, adopting the same attitude as him. Tell me he is not creating race problems amongst his own people and Ill walk nude down the main street.

Go read some of the lyrics, and he is not exactly robinson crusoe when it comes to this kind of stuff and rap, or Gangsta or whatever the hell it is called this week.

http://www.azlyrics.com/19/50cent.html


And another thing, talk about kids mentality, you think that the color of your skin gives you a monopoly on anger at society. Everyones problems seem great to themselves. As fen said, not all skip school and get into trouble. Plenty of us are angry, but deal with it and try to get along, both black and white. Colored folk don't hold the monopoly on anger and frustration.

This post has been edited by Dundee: Apr 14 2008, 05:48 AM

Here is a thought.. maybe 50 Cent doesnt speak for everyone of his ethnicity. Maybe there is a large and ungoing debate within that community over some issues that R&B and Hip Hop music have brought to the forefront.

Moreover, though you might not like, within ones own ethnicity taking slang and racial epithets used against you and turning it around is a way of coping. In other words, if you come to my home town and start calling people "Chief", well...thems fighting words. But in my high school football locker room the word got thrown around. Social context matters. Its not racist for 50 Cent to use the "n" word. As AJ argues (and I disagree with) he may be refering to a TYPE of person.. or he may be using the word to disarm the word. Now, some in the community feel that it doesnt work that way, that by making the word common black Americans who use it may be causing social damage. But thats a seperate topic.

I also disagree about to what degree we are expected to be "color blind". When you hire someone for a job.. when you are choosing a tenant, etc you should be color blind. To pretend there arent cultural differences, thats just silly. To be afraid to say "Yeah, I want a coat like that black guy is wearing" is silly. And no one would accuse you of being racist..and if they did, you should have the confidence in your own skin to ignore it.

thats what happpens with a lot of money and no brains,you get 50 centdizzie rascal,dr dre,snoop dog eminem.i notice how people like ice cube and ice tea distance themselves to their days as drug dealers, pimps,crack heads.if these guys don't realise what they are doing now they never will.hip hop is run by gansters ie-death row records.

so all you rappers out there,
we know that you don't care,
but i feel it has to be said,
that most of them G's end up dead!

EVERYBODY IN THE HOUSE SAY.....ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

Jesus christ Vetamur do you ever get the point of what people are trying to say, or do you just come out guns ablazin every time. The point of what I was saying is not that a black man can say the dreaded N word, or that a native american can say C word. And where did i say that I thought it reflected the thought of all people of that ethnicity. And where did I mention cultural differences!!! All I was saying is that "and I dont give a shit if you disagree" that we are expected to be, by and large color blind. I am not going to start pulling statistics about where it is ok and where it is not. I was generalising. By and large, for the most part, in most circumstances, etc etc we are expected to be color blind. But no not every time are we expected to be color blind. Yet how many rappers are color blind. Have you ever read the lyrics of this twit 50cent. If not, I suggest you do, (http://www.azlyrics.com/19/50cent.html) and ask yourself if you think they are nice calm words like the seekers morning town ride that are all warm and fluffy, of are they lyrics that induce anger and hate and everything that we are supposed to be getting past in this racist world. Would the words he convey be words you would encourage one of your kids to aspire to. I think not.

I wish for just one thread Vet you didnt pull apart my post like it was a bloody essay and try and get the gist, of what I am getting at.
I am not saying my opinion is right, I am saying it is my opinion. But at least try to see what I am trying to say and not put words in my mouth. If my words are not eloquent enough to get my point across I appologise, but they seem to have served me well enough till now.

You are much closer to it than us I suspect, If i read between the lines. Do you think that people like 50cent help to perpetuate the young colored mans anger at society. The lyrics emphasise the worst of the worst in my opinion. They don't seem to be saying that there is light at the end of the tunnel, hang in there work hard and so on. They are as about as negative as you can get.

Youth idolize and emulate behaviors...and its just 'silly' to think otherwise...ANY song, speech, literature, etc..that popularizes and condones...indirectly or not...hatred and violence toward another race is RACIST....jesus, why can't people see that? Further, do the following lyrics really represent the young black man's mentality? And people want to excuse it because of cultural differences? You know what all the excuse do? It puts a black mother at her young black son's coffin...that's what it does. Its not progress for the black people...its death. And people like 50cent are nothing but traitors to their race...selling their souls for a dime...ah, but by all means, lets excuse it as an expression of anger and never mind the hatred and violence it inspires....right?

nigga that watch is nice
that's what you bought from me
that chain is nice
that's what you bought from me
them earrings is nice
That's what you bought from me?
Take that shit off, move I'll break you off properly

I get mine the fast way, ski mask way
Make money
Make money, money, money
nigga if you ask me
It's the only way
Take money
Take money, money, money...

You wanna spray at me? Go head
The last nigga that tried
Got hit, keeled over, and bled 'til he died
Ya little sister callin you stupid
Reason why?
Her and ya momma in the livin room now hog-tied
I came up wit two new ways to get rich I cant wait

first off nobody in America gives a shit about 50 cent anymore so that is a bad example he sucks balls. Second, i am tired of people generalizing hip-hop into just gansta rap when hip-hop has more styles and sub genres than any other type of music it is performed and listened to by white, black, latin, asian, and native American people.

Gansta rap is not the inspiration for urban criminals it is a product of their environment not the creator because all crimes committed by gangsta are the same as their predecessors committed before gansta rap existed. No its more like poverty and bad education.

I don't wanna offend any white people but i think its hilarious that white people are mad that they can't use a word of hate they created and black people can. WHY DO YOU WANT TOO? We are not using the word the way you think of it, we have taken it for our own Nigga is not the same word as nigger it is like dude or bro etc. We made the word into our own and i use it liberally and i think that its hilariously that people unaffected by its use want it taken away.

Obviously these kids do not speak for the entire African-American community that is kind of a given. They do speak for a larger portion of young black males than people realize though and i was trying to show how a kid in the ghetto thinks and feels. I am in know way calling it justified but i share some of the same sentiments.

This post has been edited by Mandelasdiscple: Apr 14 2008, 06:16 PM

I am not mad at not using that word, i never said I was. My point was simply that for a community that is so concious of racism, the popular music of that community seems to spend a lot of time highlighting race. The whole perspective of racism is a two way street. You don't get to choose what is racist and what is not just because you are black, we all get to choose, black, white, yellow and pink with spots. Through understanding and communication. My point is simply this. As a white person I am expected to tread on eggshells being ever so carefull not to offend, being ever so tactfull in explressing ANY opinion for fear of someone turning opinion into racism. Yet so much of the music points out every bit of hate, emphasises every difference there is, but hey, thats Ok because primarily it is colored folk singing about it and because they can use the N word, this gives licence to say anything they bloody want about anything. As vet pointed out, he is free to use Chief amongst his peers but others are not and I understand why that is. But should that extend to any speech about anything? I dont aspire to call anyone anything. But what i am asking is, why is it Ok for a black rapper, hip hop or whatever the current flavour is, why is it ok for them to be so blatantly racist, and spend so much of there time stereotyping african american people.

Is what you are saying that if a black person makes derogatory comments about another black person, that is not racist. that if a black person sings and stereotypes black youth, it is not racist because he is black. Because that is what you seem to be saying, and if so I dont get it. It seems to me that racism is racism. If I say white folk are drunken bums that wont work hard, am I racist? I think so?

I just looked up the definition of racism, deosnt what rappers sing about firmly fall into definition 2, predjudice?

rac·ism play_w("R0007100") (rszm)n.1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

This post has been edited by Dundee: Apr 14 2008, 06:53 PM

Mande posts: i think its hilarious that white people are mad that they can't use a word of hate (nigga?) they created and black people can.
=====================
White People didn’t create the word nigga Mande.

Nigga is a word that derives from the word nigger which is derived from the Latin word niger which means; tada.. the color black.
It was not ‘created’ as a word of hate..

So.. American Blacks don’t want to be called Black in Latin by Whites and Latinos calling a Black man a Negro (Spanish for black) may be considered offensive by Blacks and Whites alike
and .. What a freakin‘ merry-go-round.

American Society.. Grow Up! ~rore

Ah, well, perhaps you can direct me to some popular hip-hop music that does not capitalize on violence, crime, drugs, anti-police sentiment and treating women like 'hoes' and 'bitches'



So gansta lyrics like...oh lets pick another one...how about Snoop aka 'Mediocre motherfuckers die cuz I'm servin it
They can't fuck with or see me I'm mass murderin' Dogg...doesn't idolize violence and criminal behavior? C'mon.




Then you should understand what is meant by saying that this does not help the African-American community's progress...it hinders it...and it is the angry young black men who are gunning each other down in the streets..and any innocent bystander who happens to get in their way. This can't help, Mande...surely you can see that..

This post has been edited by iwant2believe2: Apr 14 2008, 07:20 PM

About RAP being racist and what-not…

Here’s a ‘beginning’ of some of the RAP I grew up with:
Note*** Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2007, becoming the first hip hop/rap artists to be honored

Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" (1982: The group's most significant hit imho) One verse and chorus ~rore

A child is born with no state of mind
Blind to the ways of mankind
God is smilin' on you but he's frownin' too
Because only God knows what you'll go through

You'll grow in the ghetto livin' second-rate
And your eyes will sing a song called deep hate
The places you play and where you stay
Looks like one great big alleyway

You'll admire all the number-book takers
Thugs, pimps and pushers and the big money-makers
Drivin' big cars, spendin' twenties and tens
And you'll wanna grow up to be just like them, huh

Smugglers, scramblers, burglars, gamblers
Pickpocket peddlers, even panhandlers
You say I'm cool, huh, I'm no fool
But then you wind up droppin' outta high school

Now you're unemployed, all non-void
Walkin' round like you're Pretty Boy Floyd
Turned stick-up kid, but look what you done did
Got sent up for a eight-year bid

Now your manhood is took and you're a Maytag
Spend the next two years as a undercover fag
Bein' used and abused to serve like hell
'til one day, you was found hung dead in the cell

It was plain to see that your life was lost
You was cold and your body swung back and forth
But now your eyes sing the sad, sad song
Of how you lived so fast and died so young so...

Don't push me 'cuz I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
Uh huh huh huh huh

This post has been edited by rorechof: Apr 14 2008, 07:47 PM

Are the following lyrics racist or are they an innocent expression of anger? What would the public think if the same message was sung by white people about black people? Would we haul their asses up for hate crimes? But we sell and buy this shit from popular record producing companies! If people can't see how wrong this is then there really is no help for them. Hatred breeds hatred.

"Bust a Glock; devils get shot … when God give the word me herd like the buffalo through the neighborhood; watch me blast … I'm killing more crackers than Bosnia-Herzegovina, each and everyday … don't bust until you see the whites of his eyes, the whites of his skin … Louis Farrakhan … Bloods and CRIPS, and little old me, and we all getting ready for the enemy" -"Enemy", Ice Cube

"He prays on old white ladies [who] drive the Mercedes with the windows cracked … you should've heard the bitch screaming … sticking guns in crackers' mouths … the cops can't stop it … remember 4-29-92, come on; Florence and Normandy coming to a corner near you, cracker; we've been through your area, mass hysteria; led by your motherfucking Menace Clan" "Mad Nigga"; Menace Clan

"We're having thoughts of overthrowing the government … the brothers and sisters threw their fists in the air … it's open season on crackers, you know; the morgue will be full of Caucasian John Doe's … I make the Riot shit look like a fairy tale … oh my god, Allah, have mercy; I'm killing them devils because they're not worthy to walk the earth with the original black man; they must be forgetting; it's time for Armageddon, and I won't rest until they're all dead"
"Goin Bananas"; Da Lench Mob

"Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long … the white man is the devil … the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant … let's go and kill some rednecks … Menace Clan ain't afraid … I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long … a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast … I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground";
"Kill Whitey"; Menace Clan

This post has been edited by iwant2believe2: Apr 14 2008, 08:10 PM

What are you driving at tutu?

Blacks can sing about violence against Whites and get away with it?

Can’t Whites sing about violence against Blacks?

And if there are Black organizations strong enough to quell that type of music from the White sector of our Society what does that tell us?

Blacks may be a minority but they have a stronger voice than Whites? Curious ~rore

I'm saying that it should not be glamorized. I'm saying that it is detrimental and poisonous to the young black person. I'm saying it hurts rather than heals relations. I'm saying that when easily impressionable youth emulate those behaviors...as youth are prone to do...that they wind up as addicts, in prison or dead. I'm saying it because I care, rore. Damn, there's that moral high horse again, eh?



No.



I guess it tells us that apparently there are no humanists organizations with a strong enough voice to quell that crap from the black sector of our society. Perhaps too few care.

Tutu posts: I'm saying that it should not be glamorized. I'm saying that it is detrimental and poisonous to the young black person.

I guess it tells us that apparently there are no humanists organizations with a strong enough voice to quell that crap from the black sector of our society. Perhaps too few care.

Rore posts: Well, you are not alone tutu and some very wealthy and influential Blacks do care, so it seems..
“An organization called the Hip-Hop Summit Action Network headed by a man called Russell Simmons, who many call the Godfather of hip hop, is now working to get artist to agree to stop using certain words in their lyrics.

“The group stress that they don't want to censor artists - that is take away their rights to express themselves as artists.
“Instead they are asking artists to voluntarily remove/bleep/delete the racially offensive n-word as well as words that are derogatory against women, races, religious or other groups. They are asking for artists to take responsibility for the effect these words may have on their fans who listen to the music. They are worried that young people might grow up thinking it's ok to call people these words.

Russell Simmons:- "Our job is to be an inclusive voice for the hip-hop community and to help create an environment that encourages the positive growth of hip-hop. Language can be a powerful tool."
====================

Rore posts: Can’t Whites sing about violence against Blacks?

Tutu posts: No

Rore posts: Yes they can tutu… A quick google regarding White Racist musicians brings up quite a few interesting sites. By no means are they near the financial level of the Black racist groups..

Interesting in that the vast majority of people in the USA are White yet white racist music doesn’t sell as good as Black racist music in America..

This post has been edited by rorechof: Apr 14 2008, 10:07 PM

Im not sure it has been demonstrated that people dont consider racist rap lyrics as..racist. Over and over in this thread and the other I keep seeing "When blacks are racist its not considered racist." But, honestly, I dont think its true. The majority of blacks, just like the majority of whites in America just "cope and get on with their lives". There is residual racism, but most people arent blatantly racist anymore on either side of the color line.

Do young blacks buy hip hop music that contain racist lyrics or lyrics demeaning to women or whatever? Sure. But here is another news flash: So do young whites. With Eminems success hip hop is now "acceptable" to white youths and that was in fact I would bet part of the strategy behind him getting the backing he did once he got going. Plenty of hip hop recording companies are white owned. Its a business.

I would also argue that hip hops damage is in the image it creates, but not in the crime or attitude it produces. The Beatles openly talked of their drug use, it was no secret they used LSD, marijuana, etc.. their music in their later years (despite denials) seems to describes "trips". Yet for essentially the same type of potential influence, they get a pass? Because of the manner in which they do it perhaps, but they were speaking to a different audience. There are Country Music singers whose songs nearly equally glorify misogynistic behavior and alcohol abuse.. they are given a pass. Mel Gibson makes a fairly blatant anti-semitic movie it was a huge hit. But its hip hop that creates the problem?

Rather than creating the problem, hip hop may simply describe a situation as perceived by some people. Im not going to argue whether its accurate or not. Thats another thread obviously. But hip hop singers are not creating a situation, they are talking about it. And at times the lyrics are extremely poignant, if one takes the time to go through them.

Its old now but here is a song that lyrically I find amazing and I think really speaks to the threads theme. I will put my comments in brackets.

Sing for the Moment.

"Sing For The Moment"

[Verse 1]
These ideas are nightmares to white parents
Whose worst fear is a child with dyed hair and who likes earrings
Like whatever they say has no bearing, it's so scary in a house that allows
no swearing
To see him walking around with his headphones blaring
Alone in his own zone, cold and he don't care
He's a problem child
And what bothers him all comes out, when he talks about
His fuckin' dad walkin' out
Cause he just hates him so bad that he blocks him out
If he ever saw him again he'd probably knock him out
His th